Mustangs and Traction Control

[Sammy123]

Decided this discussion warrants a thread of its own.

I finally got my NT05Rs and bought a dragy to measure quarter mile times. I attached a log of 3 pulls.

Run 1 was with traction control soft off (just pressing the TC button) from a dig. This was fine until it hit a wall around 119 mph, power suddenly cut until it shifted into the next gear. It happened at 119 in this run but I've had it happen to me before at lower speeds, like 80, when aggressively accelerating on the street. This makes no sense. I'm not spinning. I'm a bit annoyed by this. The car is naturally aspirated and the tires are NT05R drag radials. It feels like its closing the throttle body at this speed but why?

Run 2 was with traction control fully off in D mode. I took off soft so the car shifted the first 3 gears rather quickly. 12.28 @ 121mph.

Run 3 was with traction control fully off and shifter in S (sport mode). I was more aggressive in the launch, but I was still hesitant about maintaining control as it was spinning a bit in 1st. 11.78 @ 122

While the second and third runs were better, I'm not comfortable driving around with traction control fully off, especially when it gets cooler and the tires wear down. I should be able to just go from a 40 roll to 120 in Advance Trac SPORT without the car suddenly cutting power after a hard shift, especially with these drag radials.
But right now it likes to cut power around that 80- 120 mph mark even with traction control at its lowest setting. Really doesn't make sense, I didn't have this problem on the stock tune with stock tires even though it was easy to spin those.

Performance wise the E85 tune I think is spot on. But something has to be done about that power hitting a brick wall around 80. I don't want to turn traction control completely off when the weather gets cooler and the tires wear down on street roads (I do mainly weekend street racing), especially when I go boosted and I'm making over 600whp.

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[18 Smoke]

Maybe get some suspension upgrades and try the MT SS. Last year I was running AED E85 NA tune. 11.30@124 and my car would dead hook from the dig on the street on 305/45 17@20psi. Now I’m boosted PBD by Rob. It made 880whp on E85 and 750 on 93. I run 93 tune w/Boostane on the street and even with 750 w/ advance trac off in drag mode I can smash the throttle in 3rd at 40-45 and not spin a tire. No hesitations on shifts all the way to 6000 in 7th (140)

 

[markmurfie]

You are spinning, most people will call it chirping the tires on the shifts(purple line). More power and harder shifts, exactly what you wanted from the tune are the cause. With the LSD rear one tire can spin more than the other, usually, on the shifts, one is spinning and the other is not, before the clutches lock up. as long as one rear and front tire is not spinning the car goes straight. When both rears spin, but one more than the other, the TC will assume the car is rotating or going too, it reacts very fast, as an internal combustion engine is relatively slow in its torque output changes. Don't compare it to TC for electric motors in a tesla because they react much faster to demanded torque output. In the attached image of your log, you can see it does close the throttle(dark green), lean the fuel(light green), and (not selected) pull spark out. It will also do things like unlock the torque converter. Basically anything and everything it can to make the engine produce less power to the rear wheels it will do it.

You are giving TC too much credit and maybe getting a false sense of security from it. I know there is advance trac sport mode, but its job is still to prevent you from losing control of the car, with minimal known inputs. It has too be overly aggressive as it doesnt know thinks like road surface conditions or tire tread life. Its a budget system that's meant for a cheap sports car and inexperienced drivers, it wasn't designed to optimize performance driving in any and every condition like some rally race car.

Turn it off completely, it takes 8 seconds, and drive the car with out being annoyed by the TC safety system. If it gets cold out, your tires wear down, or what ever excuse makes you think you need the traction control system on, I hope you would be smart enough to know you shouldn't be racing or driving aggressively in those conditions.

I'm not intending to seem insensitive toward your concerns, act like I know your driving skills, or belittle you as a driver if this reads that way.

 

[FruityJudy]

Have you talked with your tuner? You shouldnt be having traction control issues at 60+ with drag radials and just a tune unless you are in the rain/snow. I think you have something else cutting power

 

[RoyalCrimsonGT]

Weird how you’re getting power cut tuned, mine was only cutting when I was stock, after getting tuned it went away and I barely turn off TC now for that reason.

 

[Sammy123]

You are spinning, most people will call it chirping the tires on the shifts(purple line). More power and harder shifts, exactly what you wanted from the tune are the cause. With the LSD rear one tire can spin more than the other, usually, on the shifts, one is spinning and the other is not, before the clutches lock up. as long as one rear and front tire is not spinning the car goes straight. When both rears spin, but one more than the other, the TC will assume the car is rotating or going too, it reacts very fast, as an internal combustion engine is relatively slow in its torque output changes. Don't compare it to TC for electric motors in a tesla because they react much faster to demanded torque output. In the attached image of your log, you can see it does close the throttle(dark green), lean the fuel(light green), and (not selected) pull spark out. It will also do things like unlock the torque converter. Basically anything and everything it can to make the engine produce less power to the rear wheels it will do it.

You are giving TC too much credit and maybe getting a false sense of security from it. I know there is advance trac sport mode, but its job is still to prevent you from losing control of the car, with minimal known inputs. It has too be overly aggressive as it doesnt know thinks like road surface conditions or tire tread life. Its a budget system that's meant for a cheap sports car and inexperienced drivers, it wasn't designed to optimize performance driving in any and every condition like some rally race car.

Turn it off completely, it takes 8 seconds, and drive the car with out being annoyed by the TC safety system. If it gets cold out, your tires wear down, or what ever excuse makes you think you need the traction control system on, I hope you would be smart enough to know you shouldn't be racing or driving aggressively in those conditions.

I'm not intending to seem insensitive toward your concerns, act like I know your driving skills, or belittle you as a driver if this reads that way.

Is that graph from my logs? I guess I'm having a hard time trying to understand why the throttle body is closing at around 119mph? I don't think I'm spinning at that speed, especially not with NT05Rs. That's with the least amount of traction control (advance trac sport).

 

[Andy13186]

My tune took a few revisions to get the torque management fully removed, thats what was killing power for me on shifts on sticky surfaces with TCS completely off.

Also the stock redline in 5th is a lower RPM than the other gears for some reason, no idea why. When I was stock, power would get killed around that MPH in 5th.

Currently my TCS works exactly how I want it, with TCS off but advancetrac still on it wont kick in unless I go too sideways.

 

[Sammy123]

My tune took a few revisions to get the torque management fully removed, thats what was killing power for me on shifts on sticky surfaces with TCS completely off.

Also the stock redline in 5th is a lower RPM than the other gears for some reason, no idea why. When I was stock, power would get killed around that MPH in 5th.

Currently my TCS works exactly how I want it, with TCS off but advancetrac still on it wont kick in unless I go too sideways.

Who is your tuner?

 

[Andy13186]

Who is your tuner?

PBD , I talk about it some in this video around 4 mins. I also talk about the 10r80 shift tuning after that, walkaround and exhaust at the end

 

[Sammy123]

PBD , I talk about it some in this video around 4 mins

Thanks! I'll take a look.

 

[Zinc03svt]

If your getting any drop off @ 119 mph that is tuning or limiters not completely removed.

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