MT Head 2 Head - 2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs 2018 Mustang GT

[Glenn G]

The cost of the bigger brakes alone will justify the PP cost. Most people swap out the PP suspension. Hell even Ford themselves offer two upgrades. But for me it was more cost effective to go with a car that had the PP vs the base car and add all the missing pieces.

On a GT, I agree with you 100% the PP is more than worth it for the brakes and the high revving nature of the Coyote makes it a natural match for 3.73 gears. The PP wheels on the GT look better too but are still way too damned heavy. For the Ecoboost, I can get PP brakes (Take off base GT brakes) and rotors for $500, I want the GTPP brakes which I would have to pay full price on regardless. I found some on Ebay once for ~$700, needless to say they didn't last long. The k brace (which comes with the EBPP) and Strut tower brace (Which doesn't) only set me back $180 for the ford racing pieces, I would have replaced the suspension anyways so I shouldn't count that but new-springs and re-valved dampeners was only $600 still putting me ahead. The center gauges look nice but the gauges are in a terrible spot for a quick glance, My Cobb AP sits on a vent mount on the center vent and is like having any gauge I want. So on the EB, the PP is only worth it if you want to leave it stock.

Why does Ford offer different level of PPacks? Just fucking make one be all end all track pack like the 1LE!

I think ford is doing it right, just see my arguments above, Though I agree that If the PP2 were available on an EB in 2015, I would have jumped on it. Just for the magride.

One of the biggest problems the Camaro has is the sensation of poor visibility. The high belt line for example. Do you really need to see "down" out the side window? No, you need to see directly to the side, forward and back. However, when the door sill is at about chin level it "feels" like you are in a pill-box. If you are a driver of most other cars and you go sit in a Camaro it feels claustrophobic. Can you get used to it? Sure, probably within a couple days, but most people are not going to sit in the car that long before buying. You stroll into your Chevy dealer, sit in it for a couple minutes, maybe go for a 15 min test drive and during that time you will not get used to it. Sure it a nominal sports car, but it's not like it's a low/flat Lamborghini or something.

Some of the visibility issues are quite real. I had one as a rental and at many stop lights I could not see the signal directly ahead of me without ducking my head or lowering the seat further. The side windows are so small that common tasks like a drive through ATM or fast food window are a challenge.

It's not just a sensation, everything you describe in your second paragraph is a fact, Again, i didn't get to drive it but occasionally I can have issues seeing some lights in my city in the Mustang, They would be impossible to see if the Camaro was the first in line.

I said it as well, you can get used to anything, especially if you love the car, but if you are on the fence, why would you make the effort for the car that is less livable day to day and less attractive visually to most people? My friend has a 5th gen and every single person we know who does not own a Camaro (including his wife) says the Mustang is the better looking car, which pisses him off to no end. Everyone (including him) admit that it has the more livable interior, usable back seat and better viability.

I really, really hate GM (but that's a topic for another thread), I don't really have anything against Camaro owners or the Camaro itself other than it's a GM product, so it's with some level of schadenfreude that I see that they built such an excellent performance car but chose to make compromises for styling that make it so deeply flawed as just a car.

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[Spork3245]

Not according to my GT350 MagneRide...

My 350 in normal mode is more compliant on the crap roads than a GT PP any day. Then in Track mode it gets really focused on track and yet still doesn't beat you up.

Tune it right the first time around. This middle ground crap is nonsense. What's the point of such flexibility with tunable suspension if you're not going to tune it right? (rhetorical btw, don't answer that question)

So they shouldn’t offer two choices? Like the GT350 vs GT350R which has a much rougher ride than the GT350?

 

[thill444]

Look into DSC. They offer aftermarket magnaride tuning and I am sure will be supporting the new Mustangs soon. I am pretty sure they support the GT350 already. From the C7 groups their tuning for Magnaride is a game changer.

 

[Timeless]

Just food for thought for those complaining about Ford's policy.

I believe they outsell their competition thus must be doing something right.

Just because YOU don't like it does not mean the majority seem to be ok with it.

That being said, yes I wish the Mustang outperformed everyone all the time and at a lower cost.

 

[bootlegger]

Not according to my GT350 MagneRide...

My 350 in normal mode is more compliant on the crap roads than a GT PP any day. Then in Track mode it gets really focused on track and yet still doesn't beat you up.

Tune it right the first time around. This middle ground crap is nonsense. What's the point of such flexibility with tunable suspension if you're not going to tune it right? (rhetorical btw, don't answer that question)

True that the magneride makes it not so bouncy. Personally, I only use Sport+ and Race. I can see where some would also want normal mode for long trips.

Look into DSC. They offer aftermarket magnaride tuning and I am sure will be supporting the new Mustangs soon. I am pretty sure they support the GT350 already. From the C7 groups their tuning for Magnaride is a game changer.

I am going to be on the lookout for this next year. Magneride friendly upgrades and tuning.

 

[TheLion]

Well to be fair, the 1LE is the only performance level upgrade from the base V8 car that actually explicitly spells that out. The GT Performance Pack is single level up from the V8 base car. They kinda do meet right face to face.

MSRC, MagneRide
Brake upgrade, Brake upgrade
Tire upgrade, Tire upgrade

I still think the 1LE will have the edge though. The Alpha is just a better chassis...sorry.

It has nothing to do with the chassis. 2016 PP GT is 3782 lbs, 2016 1SS is 3718 lbs. That small weight is barely a 1/10th on the 1/4 mile. 2018's base weight is the same, so I'd expect the same weight or nearly when optioned similarly.

The camaro has a HUGE torque curve advantage having stolen the vette engine. Look at the dynos. The Alpha chassis may come better tuned but it's not some magic ultra light weight race bred beast it's made out to be. It's very good, but not the end all be all chassis. It's really the power advantage that nets the majority of the better times. It simply has an easier to drive power curve.

Ford simply doesn't tune their cars as aggressively, all the reviews and long term tests note how much more daily livable it is. That's their market and that's the reason they sell more GT's, better quality and lower priced more practical sports car even if a bit slower out of the box. That's also the reason for the PP2 option for those more performance oriented for 2018's.

The 5.0 has 1.2L less displacement (quite large). It's always going to be down on torque by a decent margin, but with the FP factory options you can make up for it with RPM if you want like performance.

The 6.2L LS engine will always make more power than the much smaller displacement 5.0L engine without heavy mods. Once you go aftermarket it's a wash, there's mustangs running the same times in each category as the SS's. How much do you want to spend and how well can you drive it?

Yep, the SS is a bit faster, but not by much (2018's Port/DI is a nice boost to play some catch up), but it also costs more and is of lower overall quality based on what I've seen from the data on reported customer problems. So it all depends on what you really want.

Take the cost savings and do your own stuff to the mustang, after market always out does the factory guys anyway...

 

[Nomadic]

Having owned a 1SS for a little while before it blew up and Chevy bought it back and refunded my $ and now having a '15 GT, I can tell you that the differences weren't that great.

Mine is Whippled so considerably quicker than my 1SS but test drove a few stock '17 PP Mustangs. The SS is faster but only slightly. The most noticeable difference is the power down low.

However the Camaro visibility in the rear is horrible. The cabin is also really cramped with the windshield in your face. And reliability on the Camaro has been pretty bad. All cars have issues but what you see on the Camaro board is......bad. Lots of broad issues.

The Mustang is definitely more livable and pleasant to pilot day to day and the performance difference isn't that substantial IMO.

 

[Glenn G]

Having owned a 1SS for a little while before it blew up and Chevy bought it back and refunded my $ and now having a '15 GT, I can tell you that the differences weren't that great.

Mine is Whippled so considerably quicker than my 1SS but test drove a few stock '17 PP Mustangs. The SS is faster but only slightly. The most noticeable difference is the power down low.

However the Camaro visibility in the rear is horrible. The cabin is also really cramped with the windshield in your face. And reliability on the Camaro has been pretty bad. All cars have issues but what you see on the Camaro board is......bad. Lots of broad issues.

The Mustang is definitely more livable and pleasant to pilot day to day and the performance difference isn't that substantial IMO.

It's really only a few tenths isn't it, problably more due to the 20hp and massive 55lb-ft advantage of the LT-1 vs a Gen 2 Coyote. I'd love to see a GT with the FR PP3 vs an SS. Much closer to my heart, I'd like to see an EB with the FR tune vs a Camaro I4t and V6 (It already beat both in everything except 0-60 for the V6) As both maintain warranty, and are supported by Ford they should be realistically be treated as options. Someone in one of my FB groups had it installed by the dealer before he took delivery of the car.

 

[nastang87xx]

It has nothing to do with the chassis. 2016 PP GT is 3782 lbs, 2016 1SS is 3718 lbs. That small weight is barely a 1/10th on the 1/4 mile. 2018's base weight is the same, so I'd expect the same weight or nearly when optioned similarly.

The camaro has a HUGE torque curve advantage having stolen the vette engine. Look at the dynos. The Alpha chassis may come better tuned but it's not some magic ultra light weight race bred beast it's made out to be. It's very good, but not the end all be all chassis. It's really the power advantage that nets the majority of the better times. It simply has an easier to drive power curve.

Ford simply doesn't tune their cars as aggressively, all the reviews and long term tests note how much more daily livable it is. That's their market and that's the reason they sell more GT's, better quality and lower priced more practical sports car even if a bit slower out of the box. That's also the reason for the PP2 option for those more performance oriented for 2018's.

The 5.0 has 1.2L less displacement (quite large). It's always going to be down on torque by a decent margin, but with the FP factory options you can make up for it with RPM if you want like performance.

The 6.2L LS engine will always make more power than the much smaller displacement 5.0L engine without heavy mods. Once you go aftermarket it's a wash, there's mustangs running the same times in each category as the SS's. How much do you want to spend and how well can you drive it?

Yep, the SS is a bit faster, but not by much (2018's Port/DI is a nice boost to play some catch up), but it also costs more and is of lower overall quality based on what I've seen from the data on reported customer problems. So it all depends on what you really want.

Take the cost savings and do your own stuff to the mustang, after market always out does the factory guys anyway...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I don't even know where to begin with all of this.

 

[Syphon23]

The camaro has a HUGE torque curve advantage having stolen the vette engine.

The Camaro has shared engines with the Vette for 20 years.:doh:

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

All this talk about pushing these cars to their limits is not the real world. A relative of mine sells Camaros in Red Lion, PA at a Chevrolet dealer. He brought home a '17 2SS a few months ago and brought it over here to my house. He wanted me to drive it and go for a ride in my '15 GT which at the time only had lowering springs and a resonator delete.

The 2SS was a cool car and I liked a lot about it, but the GT is SO much more practical and easy to live with. I kind of talked up the SS more than I felt just to make him feel good about bringing it over. He wasn't trying to sell me a car, but his exact words to me after I complimented the SS were, ''Bro, I'd take that GT any day over one of these''. That's a true story and although I liked the 2SS, it had a punishing ride especially on these rural back roads and was horrendous to see out of compared to the GT. The interior was nice, but reminded me of something I can't explain, maybe toy like, but quality on both cars seemed about equal.

It comes down to one thought for me. If you want all out performance, other things are going to suffer. I don't drive like a maniac but every now and then, for the most part I just want to be comfortable and enjoy the ride and when I do get on it, my car scoots just fine. Will be installing a tune here very soon and that will be a nice bump for my '15 GT.

 

[16 GT MM/Auto]

GT - Camaro
157MPH - 151MPH

0-60
4.4 - 4.1

1/4 mile
12.6 - 12.5

GT really barrels up on the top end, closed up the gap by two tenths.

That's a match race. Coyote!

... Too much 'GT' in the GT.

Not too much if "GT" was their goal.

Comfort and visibility mean a lot to me (and I'm sure to many others). Compared to the Mustang, the Camaro doesn't have it.

 

[1320']

The camaro has a HUGE torque curve advantage having stolen the vette engine.

How does one steal that which is given to them?

 

[morgande]

Not too much if "GT" was their goal.

This is not my quote, this is what they said in the review. It doesn't matter what the goal was, what matters is the GT PP went against the Camaro 1LE and it lost. The reviewer offered his opinion as to why it lost and he said "too much GT in the GT".

Now, to your point I have no doubt in my mind this was by design from Ford. However, everyone knows the GT PP leaves room on the table when it comes to its handling. There is room for improvement. Ford should make the PP more akin to what it offers in its track/handling packages than what it offers stock. Maybe it would have done better in this test. For now, we will have to wait for PP2.

 

[cbrookre]

It comes down to one thought for me. If you want all out performance, other things are going to suffer. I don't drive like a maniac but every now and then, for the most part I just want to be comfortable and enjoy the ride and when I do get on it, my car scoots just fine. Will be installing a tune here very soon and that will be a nice bump for my '15 GT.

This is very well said and sums up exactly how I feel. If you are all about the at-the-limits numbers, the Camaro is an amazing car. But if you want to drive something that is pleasant, then it is Mustang over Camaro hands down.

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