March 2017 Mustang Sales

[wireeater]

The whole "fleet sales don't count" crap has been the talking point for the idiots at Camaro6, especially Medisin, ever since the 6th Gen failed to break the S550's sales lead.

They start going on and on about profit per car, etc...yet tons of inventory is going stale on their lots.

Anything they can do to prop up their overpriced, impractical, cramped and already somewhat stale design.

But it's like .5 seconds faster dude... totally blows Mustang away.

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[Glenn G]

The whole "fleet sales don't count" crap has been the talking point for the idiots at Camaro6, especially Medisin, ever since the 6th Gen failed to break the S550's sales lead.

They start going on and on about profit per car, etc...yet tons of inventory is going stale on their lots.

Anything they can do to prop up their overpriced, impractical, cramped and already somewhat stale design.

I agree with everything you said except the last line, calling the design "somewhat stale" is so generous as to almost be deceitful. it's like saying the pacific ocean is "somewhat wet".

 

[1320']

I was being quite generous, wasn't I.

 

[Khell86]

There's a few Members here that don't realize this.

Maybe not. We do know that upgrades to the 5.0 is based off of the F-150's budget. If the truck class continued to update their engines, regardless of a new challenger or camaro, we still could have seen a new engine regardless.

 

[1320']

Maybe not. We do know that upgrades to the 5.0 is based off of the F-150's budget. If the truck class continued to update their engines, regardless of a new challenger or camaro, we still could have seen a new engine regardless.

Well..yes and no.

The Coyote started life as a replacement motor for the Mustang since the standard F-150 motor was the 4.62V/5.4 3V combo. IIRC the work on the Coyote started in late 2007/early 2008 with the goal of 380-390 HP(Note this was *after* the Camaro was greenlit for production and the SRT8 Challenger had started production). It was then passed down from on high that the goal was 400 HP (after the Camaro was confirmed with the LS3). Eventually we got the 412 HP version in 2010 (2011 MY).

Eventually Ford elected to use the Coyote as the basis for the F-150 5.0 (which is not referred to as a Coyote) as a commonality approach.

 

[thePill]

I never understood why the GT v. M3 rivalry got swept under the rug. From 2004 to 2013, Ford and BMW competed H2H in this class, Grand Am was the central stage.

It was BMW that taunted Ford in Grand Am, which led to the 5.0 Cammer and eventually, the Coyote. By the time the Camaro arrived in 2009, the Coyote had already begun R&D.

The Camaro was never a requirement for Mustang success, it has always been a by-product of the Mustang. Ford had decided early in the life of the S197 that BMW was the target of their efforts.

 

[thePill]

Yeah I think things at GM within the Camaro department are more dire than people recognize. Honestly they should completely stop regular MY2017 Camaro production for as long as needed. There's probably already enough 2017s built to last till the MY2018s arrive at the current sales pace. Why they continue to run the plant like sales are great is beyond me. Build a few hundred ZL1s a month and that's it. They're just making their situation worse. My guess is a very short 2018 model year and an emergency aggressive refresh for MY2019. That's as fast as they can do it really and I think they are. This Camaro was spied with heavy camo. Some say it's a Z/28, but their efforts to cover things like the headlights makes me think this is an early refresh. It won't fix the visibility but maybe this time they'll make it look more like a totally new car.

At the Dealer level, they aren't happy with the over flowing Camaro stock. Chevy themselves are sweating as we speak...

The pic you posted is the refresh, scheduled for late in the calendar year 2019. There are some stipulations and many of those "IF's" have to do with volume sales. When talking Camaro, the volume was intended to be over 120,000 in the first 12 months. Well, they got maybe 40% of the sales they wanted but deep down, they were sure the '16 would have sold 120,000-150,000 no problem. Then that didn't happen and Funding was pulled literally month over month until August 2016, the z28 and everything after was cancelled and programs like the ZL1 and 1LE were smashed together.

The 2nd Shift making Camaro's is about to get cut, slowing production down to maybe 4000 a month. At that point, it's not worth making the ATS/CTS/Camaro because it cost more to run the plant/pay labor. This is where they stand today...

At some point, production will grind to a halt as 30-50% are offered as rebates. That means Chevy is likely to be paying some $$$ back to the dealers after HUGE rebates (factory) get a green light.

Fact is, the 6th Gen Camaro COST MORE to build than the 5th Gen did per car. There are simply no profits to be had here... Invoice is obviously higher too... and they make 50% less costing 3-5% more than the 5th Gen.

Sorry to say it fella's but the Camaro is a money pit, poor product and a waste in invested GM money. There are so many design flaws within the Camaro product that we can't even suggest buying one at 30% off if you intend on racing.

 

[Glenn G]

Surprisingly, I'm finding a ton of ZL-1s on line without ADM, if i were in the market for a specialty car (GT350-350R) I'd be tempted. I'm also finding 2017 2.0Ts at 18k. Hard to see where the higher profit per car is coming from. I think the Camaro6 guys will be getting their wish of a Rarer car sooner rather than later.

 

[Bullitt]

At the Dealer level, they aren't happy with the over flowing Camaro stock. Chevy themselves are sweating as we speak...

The pic you posted is the refresh, scheduled for late in the calendar year 2019. There are some stipulations and many of those "IF's" have to do with volume sales. When talking Camaro, the volume was intended to be over 120,000 in the first 12 months. Well, they got maybe 40% of the sales they wanted but deep down, they were sure the '16 would have sold 120,000-150,000 no problem. Then that didn't happen and Funding was pulled literally month over month until August 2016, the z28 and everything after was cancelled and programs like the ZL1 and 1LE were smashed together.

The 2nd Shift making Camaro's is about to get cut, slowing production down to maybe 4000 a month. At that point, it's not worth making the ATS/CTS/Camaro because it cost more to run the plant/pay labor. This is where they stand today...

At some point, production will grind to a halt as 30-50% are offered as rebates. That means Chevy is likely to be paying some $$$ back to the dealers after HUGE rebates (factory) get a green light.

Fact is, the 6th Gen Camaro COST MORE to build than the 5th Gen did per car. There are simply no profits to be had here... Invoice is obviously higher too... and they make 50% less costing 3-5% more than the 5th Gen.

Sorry to say it fella's but the Camaro is a money pit, poor product and a waste in invested GM money. There are so many design flaws within the Camaro product that we can't even suggest buying one at 30% off if you intend on racing.

If what you said is true regarding the timeline I doubt that refresh will ever see the light of day. Sadly, I really doubt the Camaro can survive with it's current price and styling for another 2 full years. Something's gotta give. Either this refresh gets rushed out as a hail mary or Chevy just lets the situation deteriorate until there's hardly any sales, which means little to no hope of a 7th gen. It's a shame because I still think the Camaro is the best handling one of the bunch. Sadly, that doesn't seem to sell cars.

 

[cyandhappiness]

Chevy still had the mindset of the popularity derived from the first transformer. People were buying that because it features an innovative look, a car that is so close to the concept. But now for thousands less you can arguably get almost the same thing with the mustang.

The dealership that I went to certainly did not help. I was looking for a second toy and they act like they are sitting on gold mines with the new 1SS or 2SS and not willing to work with anyone on price. I seen the same car sitting in the lot for a year now, same thing happened with their facelift model from 2013. I walked into the Ford dealership in November 2014 while the car was brand new and got the hottest car then for 36k drive out. (GT PP premium) I really can't justify 40 something for a camaro...

 

[FocusRS]

Saw a zillion rental camaro6 in Fla ...

 

[EcoVert]

If what you said is true regarding the timeline I doubt that refresh will ever see the light of day. Sadly, I really doubt the Camaro can survive with it's current price and styling for another 2 full years. Something's gotta give. Either this refresh gets rushed out as a hail mary or Chevy just lets the situation deteriorate until there's hardly any sales, which means little to no hope of a 7th gen. It's a shame because I still think the Camaro is the best handling one of the bunch. Sadly, that doesn't seem to sell cars.

Even if they rush out a face lift that will just change the front and rear bumper covers there is No Way they can fix can't see out of and no trunk space. Good by camaro looks like Mustang and GM greed has killed you again. :lol::lol:

 

[thePill]

Trying to ascertain when exactly a refreshed Camaro will be shown. Sources say 12-18 months after the first "Spy Pics" so, anywhere between April 2018 to September 2018 the refreshed 2019 will be shown. Originally, it should have been about 6 model years... and it is possible that hasn't changed. The '16 was a short run and the '19 could consume that lost time with a 16 month model year (happened in 2010).

Ultimately, it is the STYLING that people do not like overall. If it were MSRP alone, sales would have spiked higher than they did during the 20-30% giveaway. That's what the fascia needs to accomplish, bring customers to the Camaro.

The Camaro fans think it's the '70 styling people want AND, I believe that is what they are doing. If you examine the ATS's fascia, you can see it is wide open. The likelihood the Camaro shifts its direction to the '70 to help cool the engine and possibly, provide more packaging room. Regardless, even if the current situation isn't good and the last 30 months have been poor, this '19 refresh had been on paper long before the '16 went on sale. Maybe they pushed R&D up to spring '17 instead but nothing really preventive.

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