Manuals Are Losers

[cactus_kid]

Not disabled physically are you ? Your attitude would change very quickly.

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[MLO 351]

Manual gearboxes are not what they once were.

Why did Ford feel the need to introduce Rev Match to manual Mustangs?
Rev Match decides for you when it will work and when it wont, this feature automates a function that was previously at the manual drivers discretion, leading to a loss of overall driver control/interaction, something that manual drivers hold onto as sacred.

Its the same with the No Lift Shift feature, this is another automated intervention that reduces overall manual driver interaction.

Both these features are pushing the manual gearbox further along the automated path.

What's next no clutch manual?

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Manual gearboxes are not what they once were.

Why did Ford feel the need to introduce Rev Match to manual Mustangs?
Rev Match decides for you when it will work and when it wont, this feature automates a function that was previously at the manual drivers discretion, leading to a loss of overall driver control/interaction, something that manual drivers hold onto as sacred.

Its the same with the No Lift Shift feature, this is another automated intervention that reduces overall manual driver interaction.

Both these features are pushing the manual gearbox further along the automated path.

What's next no clutch manual?

I see that as Ford trying to give Mustang owners what they want. Not everyone can rev match. And no lift shifting is pretty destructive on a clutch. Technology advances are a good thing in some cases.

 

[Sivi70980]

Just a frustrated morning and forgot all about this post. Damn it I’m an asshole. I’ll remove it.

 

[Dfeeds]

Just a frustrated morning and forgot all about this post. Damn it I’m an asshole. I’ll remove it.

We've all had em. Don't beat yourself up over it.

 

[Jennings1066]

I prefer to interact with my car. Some do this with a 6m and some change radio stations.

 

[ice445]

Manual gearboxes are not what they once were.

Why did Ford feel the need to introduce Rev Match to manual Mustangs?
Rev Match decides for you when it will work and when it wont, this feature automates a function that was previously at the manual drivers discretion, leading to a loss of overall driver control/interaction, something that manual drivers hold onto as sacred.

Its the same with the No Lift Shift feature, this is another automated intervention that reduces overall manual driver interaction.

Both these features are pushing the manual gearbox further along the automated path.

What's next no clutch manual?

Huh? Rev match works perfectly EVERY TIME, that's the point. And it's easily disabled. Personally I love it, because the computer revs the car so rapidly to the proper RPM that it lets out a nasty bark from the exhaust. I can and do enjoy heel toeing manually, but I find that it's not nearly as crisp or easy with the dogshit electronic throttles and their response curves that modern cars have. There's a lot more "close enough" than I'd like.

 

[MLO 351]

My point is Rev Match automates the process, so does No Lift Shift, if manual driving in its purest form is what owning a manual car is all about then how are these automated features acceptable, they actually detract from the "manual driving" experience.

How can manual drivers accept the above automated interventions and then discredit the most technically advanced transmission available in the Mustang today, being the 10 speed Automatic?

 

[Sivi70980]

My point is Rev Match automates the process, so does No Lift Shift, if manual driving in its purest form is what owning a manual car is all about then how are these automated features acceptable, they actually detract from the "manual driving" experience.

How can manual drivers accept the above automated interventions and then discredit the most technically advanced transmission available in the Mustang today, being the 10 speed Automatic?

Because we like what we like and you need to like what I like because I like it and how dare you not like it because I like it so it's obviously the best.

 

[K4fxd]

My last race car had a sequential gear box. Only used the clutch when starting off. No more manuals for me.

The mustang auto's have manual mode and that works just fine for me. I wish they had mounted the paddles on the column instead of the wheel or had a stick change option.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Well, multiple professional drivers never seemed to have complained about that, as far as I have seen, and most say that the A10 picks the right gear at the right time. I also suspect that with 10 gears, the impact of a gear change is less disruptive.

I can't speak for anybody but myself here. Won't even try to.

Additionally, as has been stated many, many times, the A10 allows for manual gear changes, so you don't have to worry about it changing gears when you don't want it to. Let me say this one more time: you don't have to deal with someone else's shift logic if you don't want to.

Sure. But it still isn't quite the same. I guess it's a nuance kind of thing, where the way automation gets your manual command executed just feels kind of artificial to me. TO ME.

It seems that you forget or ignore every detail that supports what the A10 can do each time you post. As I always say, I am not trying to convince anyone to get the A10, and I see why people like manuals, but to make arguments that ignore the facts is potentially doing a disservice to people considering the A10. They may make decisions based on inaccurate information.

I don't expect every die-hard automatic fan to acknowledge anything I post on this topic. In return, why must I acknowledge the strengths of an automatic if they don't mean anything to me?

I understand the 'why' behind all of the pro-AT arguments. They just don't work for me. I probably even think a bit differently than most - in general, not just with respect to cars. Maybe something I post rings a bell for a few people about something that had never specifically occurred to them. Is that such a bad thing?


Norm

 

[Arthonon]

I can't speak for anybody but myself here. Won't even try to.



Sure. But it still isn't quite the same. I guess it's a nuance kind of thing, where the way automation gets your manual command executed just feels kind of artificial to me. TO ME.



I don't expect every die-hard automatic fan to acknowledge anything I post on this topic. In return, why must I acknowledge the strengths of an automatic if they don't mean anything to me?

I understand the 'why' behind all of the pro-AT arguments. They just don't work for me. I probably even think a bit differently than most - in general, not just with respect to cars. Maybe something I post rings a bell for a few people about something that had never specifically occurred to them. Is that such a bad thing?


Norm

There seems to be a real disconnect here between what I'm saying and what you're interpreting. I don't care what you like, I don't care if people like autos or not, I am not a die-hard auto fan. I am not making pro-AT arguments, I'm just saying that I think you are misrepresenting the behavior of the A10, and you have zero experience with it to even know.

You don't post "I don't like the way this works" your posts are generally stated as "this is a problem with this transmission," so it gives the impression that the A10 works a certain way that is flawed, not that you just don't like it. And the issue I have is that often what you claim as a problem isn't even the way it works.

 

[drive_55_not]

I can't speak for anybody but myself here. Won't even try to.



Sure. But it still isn't quite the same. I guess it's a nuance kind of thing, where the way automation gets your manual command executed just feels kind of artificial to me. TO ME.



I don't expect every die-hard automatic fan to acknowledge anything I post on this topic. In return, why must I acknowledge the strengths of an automatic if they don't mean anything to me?

I understand the 'why' behind all of the pro-AT arguments. They just don't work for me. I probably even think a bit differently than most - in general, not just with respect to cars. Maybe something I post rings a bell for a few people about something that had never specifically occurred to them. Is that such a bad thing?


Norm

Not really sure what the argument here is, but M6 for a Road course ,, A10 Drag Racing or just straight line accelleration .

I got the A8 in my 2020 Hellcat and couldn't be happier at the Drag Strip. The Hellcat can be had with a M6 and I've raced a couple at the track and I cant' figure out why they are wasting their time trying launch DR's. I guess they are happy running a low 12 instead of 10,80's.

On the twisties it's never going to keep up with a stick shift car, Just like my A10 Gen3, While you could manually shift the the thing, it's a PITA trying to hit either the down or upo shift paddle while cranking on the steering wheel.

At least the Hellcats come with the bumpshifter which makes it easier to manually shift on a twisty road, it's still going to slow you down when you are down shifting and tying hit the correct gear.

As far as shifting makes driving fun? Ehhh, I will admit running a 6.3xx 1/8-mile making 3 shifts is more technical than simply putting it in "D" and mashing the gas but ... the reason I opted for the A8 is no more clutch issues, Man it pains me to add up what I spent on clutches over the years on my 3V, plus the time spent on my back under the car working on the thing.

I'm pushing 60 and arthritic so no more of that crap for me.

Put it in D and let it fly !!!


.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You don't post "I don't like the way this works" your posts are generally stated as "this is a problem with this transmission," so it gives the impression that the A10 works a certain way that is flawed, not that you just don't like it.

What I post is really in line with "I don't like". Even though whatever it is comes off to me as being a rough edge that I can't ignore. I may be bluntly spoken and averse to sugar-coating most of my opinions, but they are not intended in an inflammatory manner.

Unlike the very title to this thread, I might add.


I shouldn't have to explain this any more than people who go on and on about faster shifts should be explaining what amounts to their dissatisfaction with a MT's necessarily slower shifting. Interpretation works both ways . . .


Norm

 

[ice445]

My point is Rev Match automates the process, so does No Lift Shift, if manual driving in its purest form is what owning a manual car is all about then how are these automated features acceptable, they actually detract from the "manual driving" experience.

How can manual drivers accept the above automated interventions and then discredit the most technically advanced transmission available in the Mustang today, being the 10 speed Automatic?

You're thinking too hard about this. A more automated manual is still a manual at the end of the day. You still have to select your own gears with a physical action. An automatic, you do not. I can always turn that feature off if I want to have the most skillful experience. With the auto, the best you can do is put it into button pushing mode to tell it when you'd like it to shift.

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