Magnaflow vs Borla

[Epiphany]

My apologies. I just directed our engineering team to fast-track our GT350 parts. They've been working on the Focus RS and 2017 Raptor for Ford Performance.

My apologies if I missed it. Will your GT350 exhaust also be carried by Ford Racing as well?

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[stanglife]

[ame]

 

[nastang87xx]

It looks like LMR failed to realize that the baffles open up when you give it the beans even in normal mode, @1:44.

 

[david borla]

My apologies if I missed it. Will your GT350 exhaust also be carried by Ford Racing as well?

Yes, we designed and manufacture the GT350 aftermarket exhaust options for Ford Racing (now "Ford Performance") as well as Shelby. However, these systems will be different from the GT350 exhaust system offered by Borla.

The Ford Performance system will be badged as "Ford Performance By Borla". The Shelby system will be badged as "Shelby". And obviously the Borla system will be badged as "Borla".

3 distinctly different flavors.

If you have any further questions please let me know.

 

[Epiphany]

Ok.

A few years ago I talked with a Ford engineer that was partially responsible for the factory Boss 302 exhaust system, among other things. I asked him as to why at certain points in the system the diameter necked down and then opened up again. His answer? To combat drone. When I see what Ford did with the "X" section of the GT350's current exhaust system, I see a similar thought process at play. As such, with the typical aftermarket system maintaining the same diameter throughout are you left employing anti-drone techniques within the muffler?

 

[CSL]

Yes, we designed and manufacture the GT350 aftermarket exhaust options for Ford Racing (now "Ford Performance") as well as Shelby. However, these systems will be different from the GT350 exhaust system offered by Borla.

The Ford Performance system will be badged as "Ford Performance By Borla". The Shelby system will be badged as "Shelby". And obviously the Borla system will be badged as "Borla".

3 distinctly different flavors.

If you have any further questions please let me know.

Can you elaborate how these "flavors" will be different?

 

[david borla]

Ok.

A few years ago I talked with a Ford engineer that was partially responsible for the factory Boss 302 exhaust system, among other things. I asked him as to why at certain points in the system the diameter necked down and then opened up again. His answer? To combat drone. When I see what Ford did with the "X" section of the GT350's current exhaust system, I see a similar thought process at play. As such, with the typical aftermarket system maintaining the same diameter throughout are you left employing anti-drone techniques within the muffler?

There are a few different methods to eliminate drone and you can employ all of them inside or outside a muffler.

For instance the Venturi strategy the Ford engineer mentioned can be incorporated within a muffler. This "effect", as it's called, is named after the physicist Giovanni Venturi who discovered it in the late 1700's. The specific detail of how this works is easily found on the internet so I'll spare cutting and pasting here. It's interesting stuff and I encourage you to check it out.

Another effective and popular method to eliminate drone is called Helmholz Resonance Calculation. Again this is named after a physicist, Hermann Von Helmholtz who discovered it in the late 1800's. You can package this Helmholtz technology within a muffler or as a stand alone unit that is not inside a muffler. The specific detail of how this works is also easily found on the internet so I'll spare cutting and pasting here. It's interesting stuff too and I encourage you to check it out.

Yet another way to eliminate drone is to attenuate all frequencies by making the exhaust system as quiet as possible. This is simplest of all because it doesn't involve much science. You just add as much muffler as you can until the thing is dead quiet.

The last method I will mention here is unique to Borla, we have a patent on it, and it was discovered in 2010 by Alex Borla. This is our ATAK technology or what we used to call "Multicore technology". This strategy works like a pipe organ where we package various sized cores, with different perforation patterns, within a muffler to amplify the palatable and delicious frequencies while eliminating or canceling the objectionable frequencies. This method is something we're still evolving and it's not specifically designed to eliminate resonance, like Helmholtz technology is, but it works nonetheless. We're still discovering new ways to use this technology, it's so new. We didn't expect it to be something capable of eliminating drone, we originally developed it to have infinite control of the exhaust note, but it works well with drone in many circumstances.

Finally to get to your question, we typically use a combination of ATAK and Helmholtz. Even if the system is not called an "ATAK" system it may still incorporate some ATAK technology to eliminate drone. "ATAK" has come to signify our loudest offerings so we use the moniker in that fashion. However, the technology is used in systems not called "ATAK"

We use the Venturi strategy in some cases as well but only if it doesn't adversely affect power which is rare. Most of the time Venturis are going to restrict flow and slow the car down.

The ATAK and Helmholtz methods do not restrict flow.

If you have any more questions please let me know.

 

[nastang87xx]

I love how you guys, [MENTION=23056]david borla[/MENTION] are so transparent with your community. There's a reason why I had a Borla on my Coyote.

Dudes, for what it's worth, Corsa uses the Helmholz resonance technique in their products.

Drone happens at about 133 - 138hz which is the frequency range that causes all of that buzzing and annoying dead cow moaning nonsense. Sound deadening doesn't kill drone either. Believe me, I've tried/wasted money. So either shoot it out the tailpipe without affecting everything around it, cancel it out, or dead it until you can't hear anything anymore. The later of which is obviously not what we want.

 

[BmacIL]

There are a few different methods to eliminate drone and you can employ all of them inside or outside a muffler.

For instance the Venturi strategy the Ford engineer mentioned can be incorporated within a muffler. This "effect", as it's called, is named after the physicist Giovanni Venturi who discovered it in the late 1700's. The specific detail of how this works is easily found on the internet so I'll spare cutting and pasting here. It's interesting stuff and I encourage you to check it out.

Another effective and popular method to eliminate drone is called Helmholz Resonance Calculation. Again this is named after a physicist, Hermann Von Helmholtz who discovered it in the late 1800's. You can package this Helmholtz technology within a muffler or as a stand alone unit that is not inside a muffler. The specific detail of how this works is also easily found on the internet so I'll spare cutting and pasting here. It's interesting stuff too and I encourage you to check it out.

Yet another way to eliminate drone is to attenuate all frequencies by making the exhaust system as quiet as possible. This is simplest of all because it doesn't involve much science. You just add as much muffler as you can until the thing is dead quiet.

The last method I will mention here is unique to Borla, we have a patent on it, and it was discovered in 2010 by Alex Borla. This is our ATAK technology or what we used to call "Multicore technology". This strategy works like a pipe organ where we package various sized cores, with different perforation patterns, within a muffler to amplify the palatable and delicious frequencies while eliminating or canceling the objectionable frequencies. This method is something we're still evolving and it's not specifically designed to eliminate resonance, like Helmholtz technology is, but it works nonetheless. We're still discovering new ways to use this technology, it's so new. We didn't expect it to be something capable of eliminating drone, we originally developed it to have infinite control of the exhaust note, but it works well with drone in many circumstances.

Finally to get to your question, we typically use a combination of ATAK and Helmholtz. Even if the system is not called an "ATAK" system it may still incorporate some ATAK technology to eliminate drone. "ATAK" has come to signify our loudest offerings so we use the moniker in that fashion. However, the technology is used in systems not called "ATAK"

We use the Venturi strategy in some cases as well but only if it doesn't adversely affect power which is rare. Most of the time Venturis are going to restrict flow and slow the car down.

The ATAK and Helmholtz methods do not restrict flow.

If you have any more questions please let me know.

Thanks for the info, David.

Any plans to introduce slightly lower volume ATAK-tuned systems? I love the sound, say for the 5.0L, but it's just too loud.

 

[david borla]

Drone happens at about 133 - 138hz which is the frequency range that causes all of that buzzing and annoying dead cow moaning nonsense.

You know your stuff! Yes!

The most prominent Hz of an exhaust note can be approximated by converting RPM to Hertz and then multiplying by the number of cylinders.

[FONT=&quot]For instance, identifying the resonance we fight with at 2000 RPM on an eight cylinder engine would look like this.

2000 RPM divided by 60 seconds = 33.3
Combustion occurs every other crankshaft rotation (16.65 Hz), but also once for each of the eight cylinders which gives us a result of 133 Hz

If you're interested you can learn a lot about this from a simple Google search. These calculations have been around for over 100 years.

[/FONT]

 

[david borla]

Thanks for the info, David.

Any plans to introduce slightly lower volume ATAK-tuned systems? I love the sound, say for the 5.0L, but it's just too loud.

For which Mustang? The GT350? Our exhaust for the GT350 is bi-modal so you get 2 sound levels that can be controlled from inside the vehicle. ATAK is the loud position and you get a lower decibel exhaust note in the quiet position.

 

[Myshelby3425]

For which Mustang? The GT350? Our exhaust for the GT350 is bi-modal so you get 2 sound levels that can be controlled from inside the vehicle. ATAK is the loud position and you get a lower decibel exhaust note in the quiet position.

Do you know more or less when these exhaust would be ready?

 

[Voodooo]

David, just curious if you received my email?
Thanks.

 

[BmacIL]

For which Mustang? The GT350? Our exhaust for the GT350 is bi-modal so you get 2 sound levels that can be controlled from inside the vehicle. ATAK is the loud position and you get a lower decibel exhaust note in the quiet position.

Mainly referring to the GT, but good info to know about the GT350 exhaust. Would love to have that bi-modal available for the GT, but Borla would need to have its own controller to do so (like X-force's).

 

[david borla]

David, just curious if you received my email?
Thanks.

I don't think so. Did you send it to [email protected]? Send me a PM with your email address so I can search for it.

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