Local S650 Dyno

[chuckhammer]

Both cars I drove felt smoother and had better ride quality than the S550's I've owned besides my 2020 GT500 CFTP. I know for a fact the springs changed from the previous year. Not sure about the shocks and struts or the calibration for Magneride.

As far as braking goes it's a big difference. The premium GT's have similar brakes to the 2020+ GT500 where most S550's don't. The only S550 I know of that shares similar brakes to the the 2020 GT500 or S650 premium is the Mach 1. The premium brakes have 16" rotors and a 6 piston caliper up front and the rears are 14" with 4 piston calipers.

Power wise I felt the new car to definitely have more pep in it and the dyno numbers back back that up. Both the 10R80 car and the MT82 car I got to drive to me just felt like an overall improvement. The MT82 car specifically being very easy to shift and no problems finding gears.

My overall impression was that it's definitely a higher caliber car than the S550 and I'm really looking forward to diving deep into the platform once our cars show up.

Thanks for the additional detail. I didn't realize the non-PP GTs had bigger brakes. Also didn't realize there were any significant suspension changes like the revised springs you mentioned.

Below are the primary shortcomings in the S550 chassis and suspension, both from what I've found myself and read from others. Not sure if the S650 addresses any of these:

- Soft/flexible mounting of rear subframe to frame. Needs bushing lockouts and bracing to reduce or eliminate wheel hop.
- Soft and weak differential bushings that deflect excessively under load and frequently fail/tear. Needs stiffer bushings or inserts and sleeves for improved durability and reduced drivetrain wind-up and wheel hop. Stronger through-bolts don't hurt, either.
- Base GT shocks and struts (especially the shocks) have insufficient rebound damping. Results in excessive float over larger bumps and humps.

Some other shortcomings, again not sure if the S650 addresses any of these:

- Steering feel is nearly absent. Needs revision to EPAS, steering geometry/ratio, or both. No reason to substantially degrade the driving engagement experience like this.
- Engine oil cooler is primarily an oil preheater.
It ties oil temperature to engine coolant temperature which is not ideal. As I understand it, we'd like to maintain ECT 180-190, CHT 190-200, and oil 200-220. Only way to do this currently is with an aftermarket oil cooler or choosing a Shelby or Mach 1 car that comes with one.
- Tall gearing in MT82-D4 for us manual lovers. The additional low end torque and power from an E85R tune (or a PD blower or 4.09 gears) substantially mitigates this but the fuel economy gearing is just silly in a car like this. I would have gladly paid the gas guzzler tax to get the D3's shorter gearing and much closer gear spacing with 5th being 1:1. But still with the D4 improvements.
- Chassis mounted shifter with lots of soft rubber between driver's hand and shift forks.
Needs Transmission mounted shifter.
- Fairly minor issue but the tire-to-fender gaps are overly large. Instead of requiring larger diameter tires or lowering springs to resolve this, the car's fenders could be redesigned to reduce this visually unappealing gap.

I won't mention the tick. Oops, too late.

I do believe Ford intends these cars to be affordable grand tourers, rather than true high performance cars. Hence, all the soft rubber bushings throughout the chassis and suspension to reduce NVH. Low-rate springs, shocks, and struts serve the same purpose.

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[MAGS1]

LMR got theirs on the dyno today

 

[ShadesOfBloo]

LMR got theirs on the dyno today

I like seeing the data, and now that I look again my dyno graph has the same "STD smoothing" correction factor as theirs. And their 7th gear pull still shows 34 lb-ft less torque than my car.
What's up with that?
LMR is in Waco, Texas, and Google says Waco is 470' above sea level. That's close enough to sea level, I wouldn't expect them to lose much to altitude.
And their situation is not like California, where they'd be stuck with 91-octane as their highest option.

Could this be an issue of testing the car too soon, and it's not broken-in yet?

 

[MAGS1]

I like seeing the data, and now that I look again my dyno graph has the same "STD smoothing" correction factor as theirs. And their 7th gear pull still shows 34 lb-ft less torque than my car.
What's up with that?
LMR is in Waco, Texas, and Google says Waco is 470' above sea level. That's close enough to sea level, I wouldn't expect them to lose much to altitude.
And their situation is not like California, where they'd be stuck with 91-octane as their highest option.

Could this be an issue of testing the car too soon, and it's not broken-in yet?

Yeah not really sure but it certainly is odd. It could be break in. But I have seen a few videos of folks picking up their S650 and they say it feels every bit as strong as their prior S550’s. That’s just feel and not comparing numbers but you’d think you could feel that much of a difference in HP and/or torque.

 

[furdfan2018]

Strong.

That LMR car looks nice.

 

[Cory S]

Yeah not really sure but it certainly is odd. It could be break in. But I have seen a few videos of folks picking up their S650 and they say it feels every bit as strong as their prior S550’s. That’s just feel and not comparing numbers but you’d think you could feel that much of a difference in HP and/or torque.

10% rule works. So most of the time, it takes around a 8-10% increase in power to “Feel” it.

Also, I would hope the S650 should feel no less powerful than the S550.

 

[WildHorse]

Just wait till Whipple starts shipping their Gen 6 3.0L kits for the new cars. It's going to be insane.

So Whipple supplied tune. That's gonna be what ? 600-630 hp?
Wouldn't really call that insane with a 4000# car. Unless ROB already
cracked that code ha-ha.

 

[LethalPerformance]

So Whipple supplied tune. That's gonna be what ? 600-630 hp?
Wouldn't really call that insane with a 4000# car. Unless ROB already
cracked that code ha-ha.

The S550's with their stage 2 kits make around the 650-675rwhp mark on 93 octane. With that said I would expect with their cal on the stage 2 numbers would be slightly higher than that due to the increased HP/TQ output the S650 has. 700rwhp to start maybe?

We obviously have every intention of turning it up with a smaller pulley and other goodies until custom tuning becomes available. Stay tuned as the party is about to begin.

 

[MAGS1]

Assuming of course that custom tuning will actually be available with the locked ECU. Unless Whipple will be writing custom tunes for folks??

 

[WildHorse]

650-675rwhp mark on 93 octane

93 sure.. I tend to use 91 octane as the standard..cause I'm poor haha. (not everyone has access to 93, e85, etc.)

 

[LethalPerformance]

Assuming of course that custom tuning will actually be available with the locked ECU. Unless Whipple will be writing custom tunes for folks??

I don’t believe any of the tuning support companies have access or the ability to successfully flash the S650’s yet. It may take some time or it may become avaiable sooner than we think.
As far as Whipple goes they already have the calibration done and it’s been in testing for quite sometime now. So once their kits become available you’ll be able to get a complete kit with tuning no problem.

 

[MAGS1]

Gen 3 vs Gen 4

 

[MAGS1]

Same issue on the torque, it’s way low. Bill suspects because it’s still in break in

 

[Jasonb543]

Can’t wait to see how this gen4 motor fully shines with intake/exhaust, fueling timing etc!

i wonder if the heads are closer to a voodoo head?

 

[Cory S]

Can’t wait to see how this gen4 motor fully shines with intake/exhaust, fueling timing etc!

i wonder if the heads are closer to a voodoo head?

It’s not much different than a Gen3 in reality. They both will be 3-5% of each other.

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