January 2017 Mustang Sales

[azsnake]

The LS is a good motor. A bit more SBF like than SBCish, but I digress. For all the praise, why have stock block and head/heads modular motors and 2JZ motors been much faster than any LS motor, aftermarket blocks and heads included.

The thing that makes no sense about the LS swap argument is the fact that there are tons of cheap GM cars out there for swaps. I frequent many different junkyards and they are all full of F bodys. I will even go one step further and say nowadays its easier and cheaper to find a F body than a Foxbody. Thats not even including all kinds of old RWD GM vehicles that can be had for $500. So why all the swapping. But... but... nobody swaps other motors into GM vehicles so those motors are garbage. But why would someone want to use a platform that GM enthusiasts don't even want to use. Its really monkey see monkey do. There is no logic behind it. And there doesn't have to be. Someone wants to do it with their money and that's all that matters. But when they try to justify it some other way, that's when it makes no sense.

Cost! It's WAY more to build a Mod or Coyote!
I have a 93 Fox that I am building. I looked at mod motors..way too expensive. SBF blocks are weak generally when your pushing big hp and you pretty much gotta buy new heads. I found a 5.3 under 100K on the odo for 850.00 including harness and all accessories. I got a 4L80 for 350 from the same salvage yard. K member for an LS is pretty cheap (even a good one). Chinese turbo (pretty much complete kit) for 900. Megasquirt gold box/harness for 1500. I'll be using the megasquirt harness. New injectors 370. Thats the bulk of the cost. I have a tube bender and a tig and I can do all of my exhaust plumbing at home. Need a cam and some valve springs, fuel pump and regulator, but I'd need all that with a Mod motor or an Coyote aside from cam and springs). The 5.3 will make about 600 RWHP with moderate boost, and should run for a few seasons. If it blows up ill just go get another 5.3 for less than a grand.

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[1320']

Cost! It's WAY more to build a Mod or Coyote!
I have a 93 Fox that I am building. I looked at mod motors..way too expensive. SBF blocks are weak generally when your pushing big hp and you pretty much gotta buy new heads. I found a 5.3 under 100K on the odo for 850.00 including harness and all accessories. I got a 4L80 for 350 from the same salvage yard. K member for an LS is pretty cheap (even a good one). Chinese turbo (pretty much complete kit) for 900. Megasquirt gold box/harness for 1500. I'll be using the megasquirt harness. New injectors 370. Thats the bulk of the cost. I have a tube bender and a tig and I can do all of my exhaust plumbing at home. Need a cam and some valve springs, fuel pump and regulator, but I'd need all that with a Mod motor or an Coyote aside from cam and springs). The 5.3 will make about 600 RWHP with moderate boost, and should run for a few seasons. If it blows up ill just go get another 5.3 for less than a grand.

If you're building a *good* LS..you're going to spend about the same as a Coyote or ModMotor these days.

If you're building a high power but ultimately disposable motor then yes, the LS is a good starting point.

 

[millhouse]

Cost! It's WAY more to build a Mod or Coyote!
I have a 93 Fox that I am building. I looked at mod motors..way too expensive. SBF blocks are weak generally when your pushing big hp and you pretty much gotta buy new heads. I found a 5.3 under 100K on the odo for 850.00 including harness and all accessories. I got a 4L80 for 350 from the same salvage yard. K member for an LS is pretty cheap (even a good one). Chinese turbo (pretty much complete kit) for 900. Megasquirt gold box/harness for 1500. I'll be using the megasquirt harness. New injectors 370. Thats the bulk of the cost. I have a tube bender and a tig and I can do all of my exhaust plumbing at home. Need a cam and some valve springs, fuel pump and regulator, but I'd need all that with a Mod motor or an Coyote aside from cam and springs). The 5.3 will make about 600 RWHP with moderate boost, and should run for a few seasons. If it blows up ill just go get another 5.3 for less than a grand.

Or you could by a used F150 5.0 for $1500 and have a reliable 650rwhp without worrying about it blowing up.

 

[cbrookre]

Sorry, that was meant as sarcasm. Here it would be factual, there it would be an opinion.

I was only joking with you... hence the

:cheers:

 

[cbrookre]

According to Cars.com (not sure exactly how accurate... may contain in flight cars that are not yet on the lot) the numbers are:

Camaro (new cars for sale in the US):

total: 34,864
2017: 32,671
2016: 2,193

Mustang:

Total: 18,642
2017: 17,274
2016: 969

Now, if those numbers are to be believed (will assume that for the sake of argument), that means that Ford (at current sales rate) has about a 3-3.5 month supply of Mustangs, and Chevrolet has about a 10 month supply of Camaros. No matter how you cut it, a 10 month supply of a car that will be replaced with 2018's in 5 months is not good. Obviously the 3.5k Camaros from January was impacted by weather and other things, but still it is a 7 month supply if they sell 5k per month. This data points to a company that missed their targets on predicted sales, and will have to do something drastic to right the ship.

To be clear, I am a traditional Ford shopper but do not wish for the demise of the Camaro. But I think it is clear from all objective measures that while the Camaro is the performance leader, it is not the more desirable car to the unbiased consumer...

 

[redd7188]

Cbrookre you are right and this is why. At the beginning of last year the head of GM said they were not going to use huge discounts, incentives and rebates to sell cars. Well GM carried on with philosophy until the fall. Then they began to back off of their word because the dealer lots were log jammed with unsold inventory. GM began to offer big discounts but still could not move enough cars so they hit the panic button and dumped twice the usual amount of cars on rental lots in November and December. So GM claimed sales were up when really that was not the case at all. You see GM is on the hook to buy those rentals back after a certain amount of time so they dump them on used car lots. So what GM has done is flooded the future used car market and driven down the value of the camaro and other cars. This is why back in December when Chevy claimed they sold 7,000 camaros it was fools gold and with the Camaro only selling 3,000 cars this month it is not hard to see that.

 

[azsnake]

If you're building a *good* LS..you're going to spend about the same as a Coyote or ModMotor these days.

If you're building a high power but ultimately disposable motor then yes, the LS is a good starting point.

Yes, disposable is ok with me. If I toss a rod or burn up a piston in a mod it will more than likely cost me more to rebuild than to go get a junkyard 5.3

 

[azsnake]

Or you could by a used F150 5.0 for $1500 and have a reliable 650rwhp without worrying about it blowing up.

Ok show me a $1500 F150 with a coyote....Thats like finding a unicorn pooping leprechauns here
Shoot, a totaled F150 is possibly worth more than that in scrap and salvage.

 

[azsnake]

According to Cars.com (not sure exactly how accurate... may contain in flight cars that are not yet on the lot) the numbers are:

Camaro (new cars for sale in the US):

total: 34,864
2017: 32,671
2016: 2,193

Mustang:

Total: 18,642
2017: 17,274
2018: 969

They have to have a mistake, I'm pretty sure we haven't had 2018's hit the lots yet, I mean we dont even know the 2018 power ratings yet

 

[5pointOh]

Ok show me a $1500 F150 with a coyote....Thats like finding a unicorn pooping leprechauns here
Shoot, a totaled F150 is possibly worth more than that in scrap and salvage.

I think he means finding a 5.0 out of a f-150 vs finding one out of a Mustang.

 

[cbrookre]

They have to have a mistake, I'm pretty sure we haven't had 2018's hit the lots yet, I mean we dont even know the 2018 power ratings yet

Oops, that was my typo, it should say 2016... I will edit

 

[azsnake]

I think he means finding a 5.0 out of a f-150 vs finding one out of a Mustang.

Prices in my neck of the woods are damn high for modern Ford V8's
A F150 coyote is about 2500, a LQ4 is about 1450.... HUGE difference in price. This area doesn't even have a bunch of car enthusiasts so I don't think its due to high local demand. I think a lot of these salvage yards are pulling these new drive-trains and selling them over the internet. I know 5.3's were about 450 3-4 years ago. If I go to a place that has pulled the motor it's triple that. If I pull it, it's about 850.00

 

[millhouse]

I think he means finding a 5.0 out of a f-150 vs finding one out of a Mustang.

 

[millhouse]

Prices in my neck of the woods are damn high for modern Ford V8's
A F150 coyote is about 2500, a LQ4 is about 1450.... HUGE difference in price. This area doesn't even have a bunch of car enthusiasts so I don't think its due to high local demand. I think a lot of these salvage yards are pulling these new drive-trains and selling them over the internet. I know 5.3's were about 450 3-4 years ago. If I go to a place that has pulled the motor it's triple that. If I pull it, it's about 850.00

eBay has them for $1500-$1750 shipped all day.

 

[MadCow]

Cost! It's WAY more to build a Mod or Coyote!
I have a 93 Fox that I am building. I looked at mod motors..way too expensive. SBF blocks are weak generally when your pushing big hp and you pretty much gotta buy new heads. I found a 5.3 under 100K on the odo for 850.00 including harness and all accessories. I got a 4L80 for 350 from the same salvage yard. K member for an LS is pretty cheap (even a good one). Chinese turbo (pretty much complete kit) for 900. Megasquirt gold box/harness for 1500. I'll be using the megasquirt harness. New injectors 370. Thats the bulk of the cost. I have a tube bender and a tig and I can do all of my exhaust plumbing at home. Need a cam and some valve springs, fuel pump and regulator, but I'd need all that with a Mod motor or an Coyote aside from cam and springs). The 5.3 will make about 600 RWHP with moderate boost, and should run for a few seasons. If it blows up ill just go get another 5.3 for less than a grand.

LS are good motors as I stated. The modular motors are just better was my point, even with all the LS hype and propaganda. And the simple fact that RWD GM platforms are a dime a dozen so why not put all that in an old Fbody or S10 or Regal or whatever.

As far as cost go they both have pros and cons but building it right with either platform is expensive.

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