January 2017 Mustang Sales

[1320']

I'm curious how the elimination of the base V-6 will impact sales.

Very little, most likely.

Ford obviously didn't see any business advantage to keeping the V6 around. They surely did cost/benefit analysis for the last few years and determined that ultimately having a supply chain for a third engine, contracts, etc would cost more than could be reasonably profited from selling the V6.

As it stands I've maybe only seen 2 V6's on my local dealer lots.

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[redd7188]

I tried to tell the Camaro guys not to put to much into the November and December sales figures. Why? Because in those months Chevy dumped a massive amount of Camaros on rental lots. Chevy could barely sale them with the huge discounts so they dumped on rental lots.

 

[cbrookre]

Look at the years of no Camaro and you'll see barely any improvements on the Mustang those years. There was no need to improve it, no competition. Then when the Camaro comes back, all of a sudden new improvements. There's a direct correlation.

There was a huge improvement in styling in '05, and in power the same year (260->300). There was also the Bullitt (315HP) and the GT500 (~500 HP) introduced in those Camaro-less years. I am not saying that competition is a bad thing or that the Camaro should go off the market, but there were some pretty sweet Mustangs during the Camaro's absence.

 

[1320']

There was a huge improvement in styling in '05, and in power the same year (260->300). There was also the Bullitt (315HP) and the GT500 (~500 HP) introduced in those Camaro-less years. I am not saying that competition is a bad thing or that the Camaro should go off the market, but there were some pretty sweet Mustangs during the Camaro's absence.

Bullitt was an appearance package that had Ford Racing's CAI kit..nothing more.

The GT500 was a big deal, I'll give you that.

 

[cbrookre]

Bullitt was an appearance package that had Ford Racing's CAI kit..nothing more.

The GT500 was a big deal, I'll give you that.

The Bullitt was more than just a CAI, but it was not a major difference as you said. Crank damper, higher redline by 250, 3.73 rear, and exhaust. But all adds up to only 15HP, or 5%, though with a better aesthetic & sound (arguably) vs. the stock GT.

 

[Z_Rocks]

The visibility in Camaro sucks and got even worst (the front post visibility) with the new model. It's only good for straight line on an empty road, where you don't need to see who is around and in front of you.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

These threads are comical. I love reading both forums. I hate to see low numbers for any of these cars. I like choice and competition.

I'm still trying to figure out which side has the biggest fanboys. I don't understand brand loyalty, what exactly do you get out of it?

I'm with you. And don't see anything to get panties twisted about. Team Camaro sold 70K plus last year. While not a home run like the S550. Not shabby. So it's not like they will be going away any time soon. But to the other side of the coin. People claiming that ford was chasing GM's Camaro are acting a little silly also. Who was the first Brand to market a 550HP pony car. Hint. It wasn't GM or Dodge. But for the record. The 10 biggest fan boys on this sight would kick the asses of the 10 biggest fan boys over on Camaro6.


I like to pick a favorite quote from the other side every month. This one stood out as very thought provoking!:lol:Anyone find it odd that Ford is making the Mustang into a Mustamaro if the Mustang is selling so well? Just about every change they are making to the Mustang is making it more like the Camaro, the front end especially. REALLY???????

 

[Coyote Red]

How hard is it to "Go back to the old design" that did not have the "visibility" problems and keep the weight down? The LT1 motor is an improvement over LS6?

 

[Twin Turbo]

Thread tidied......please stop with the personal insults and bashing of other marques.

Thank you.

 

[MRGTX]

As predicted, the Camaro product didn't last 12 months.

Once a product dips this low, there's no going back. The lots are filled to the brim with Camaro's nobody wants.

Unfortunately, Camaro are expected to decrease another 15%-25% during the next 12 months. Some even expect sales to drop below 30% regardless of the weather...
...

So what you're saying is that it's cheaper than ever to buy a muscle-coupe that will mop the road with your Mustang? :lol:

ONLY when sales numbers affirm our previously held position do we see them as vindication of our worldviews. This place was so full of excuses when the Camaro briefly surpassed the Mustang.

By "we" I mean the forum zealots in either tribe.

That would be terrible and anyone with the common sense of a dry stick can see that.

Competition breeds innovation and success. I want the Camaro to improve and continue to challenge the Mustang to be better.

First, you're talking to Ecovert so the first part of your statement doesn't apply. ;)

But you took the words out of my keyboard. Competition is why we have a screaming 435hp Coyote at all.

Mustang owners can be just as 'fanatic'.

Its actually a trait common to most humans, especially those brought up in cultures where one's worth is measured by your material assets.

We invest large sums of time and money into our cars.
We are taught from an early age that cars are a representation of you to the world. A form of status. Peacock feathers. Its an accessory, a second skin.

When someone is critical of the car, it can be taken as a personal attack of the owner. That they are a failure as a consumer for not having 'the best'.
If people were truly not concerned over perception and status, they would not care one iota if someone bad mouthed their particular car. I think those who get really hot headed and passionate about seeing another car fail seem to have a fragile self esteem.

Some folks legitimately don't care about such things, and view the car as a utilitarian tool to get from A to B. Most pony car owners are not cut from that particular clot

Its the confluence of materialism and tribalism.

Us vs. Them.

It has socio-economic stratifications.

Perfectly stated...and as a guy who honestly loves all kinds of performance cars, it's both frustrating and hilarious.

 

[wireeater]

Is "factual opinions" not a major contradiction?

Sorry, that was meant as sarcasm. Here it would be factual, there it would be an opinion.

 

[Rebellion]

I'm curious how the elimination of the base V-6 will impact sales.

I'm questioning the same thing. The majority of non-enthusiast S550 I've seen around are V6. I'm sure people got into it because it was the cheapest new pony.

I think that, unless the base EB is still the cheapest new pony, there will be some dropped sales.

 

[FocusRS]

As predicted, the Camaro product didn't last 12 months.

Once a product dips this low, there's no going back. The lots are filled to the brim with Camaro's nobody wants.

Unfortunately, Camaro are expected to decrease another 15%-25% during the next 12 months. Some even expect sales to drop below 30% regardless of the weather...

They have another solid 24 months in this current configuration before a refresh can save them. However, looking at the overall design, there not really much they can do until Gen 7...



As far as the Mustang, we knew and reported the intended changes for 2018 as far back as 2014. The 2018 refresh is fantastic and comes at the right time. This is a sound business strategy for Ford and poor planning by Team Camaro. None of these numbers should surprise anyone. This very scenario was explored in detail and now it's very much reality.

I said when it came out that it won't last 24 months with poor sales. 3500 in January after your first full 12 months is the very definition of catastrophe...

+1000

I really wanted to like the Camaro. It's just poorly designed, fugly, clausterphobic, GM junk.

 

[FocusRS]

Other advantages for the Mustang include appearance (subjective, but I think most agree), price, and arguably sound (at least with an upgraded exhaust... also subjective, but again, I think most agree. higher redline is a fact), and braking performance.

And the 2018 looks like it will eliminate most of the Camaro's other advantages. We'll see.

I'm not a brand loyalist at all. I think the Corvette is a great car and nearly bought one a while ago, and I totally get the appeal of the Camaro to some... But I also get why the Mustang is beating it despite inferior performance.

The Mustang is superior in every area that counts. My God my GT350 looks and sounds as good as a friggen 100K+ exotic ! Room for 4. Built RIGHT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES (Michigan). Interior is really nice. Trunk is actually USABLE.

Home Run for Ford.

Camaro? LOL.

 

[1320']

How hard is it to "Go back to the old design" that did not have the "visibility" problems and keep the weight down? The LT1 motor is an improvement over LS6?

Which old design are you talking about?

The Gen 5 Camaro had visibility issues, and was heavy because like the Challenger it was based on a full sized sedan platform. It was larger and less cramped however. Mind you I like the Gen 5 Camaro way more than the Gen 6, even with it being heavier.

The LS variants that were in the Gen 5 Camaro were the LS3, L99 (based on the LQ9 out of the trucks), the LSA (from the CTS-V) and the LS7. The LS6 was never used in the Camaro.

The LT1 in terms of power and fuel economy is an improvement over the LS3/L99. However it's also heavier and seems to have a higher failure rate. It's more sensitive to oiling issues and GM is really paranoid about anything related to the motor, so much so that they've been known to raise warranty stink issues with engines that have aftermarket oil-air separators "catch cans" installed.

The LT1 is way more maxed out from the factory than the LS3/L99 ever was. H/C/I combos were known to pick up 100+ WHP on the LS3/L99..now they net maybe 50HP with a really good tune.

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