Is it OK to post about a shady dealer ...?

[Stangomydreams]

I've had good dealer experiences and horrible ones. Last one everything on deal agreed with salesman via email- then purchase day F&I started the firehose of extras to the tune of 10s of thousands. Wife looked at me and said "time?" I said yep and up to leave - then the begging and pleading (mgr, f&I, sales) started so original deal was honoured with discounts, trade price and zero rate ford finance and I bought. Roared laughing when the calls to buy it back during covid started, imbeciles. I really had hoped that high pressure crap had left the car sales biz but apparently not.

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[MurphGT]

Hello; I have been following the SVB bailout the last few days. Some of it does not make sense. Seems all depositors will be made whole even those with over $250K of deposits. That is not the way FDIC was supposed to work. Makes it sweet for folks at that particular bank to be sure, but leaves the question open for all the rest of the banks. Is the $250K deposit insurance no longer the upper limit?
I made a couple trips to my bank Monday and spoke to a few bank officers. There are some exceptions but as an individual the $250K number usually covers all accounts at one bank for one person. One exception is the IRA retirement accounts which fall outside of the $250K limit. I have checking, savings and CD accounts and if the total is over $250K, the portion over is not insured by FDIC. If the bank fails the FDIC will get you $250K. Amounts over that limit may or may not be recoverable. Might take months or longer for the banks assets to sell. You may get some percentage recovered, but not be made whole.

If you can have two individuals at that bank the limit can be $500K. Say for a married couple. Afraid I did not ask much about how that needs to work.

One other thing is having accounts at different banks. Be sure the banks are not affiliated/connected to each other. One of my banks has seven branches so the extra branches still count as part of just one bank. So, the $250K limit applies.

Last thing is my speculation. If we have a general run on banks, the generous bailout of SVB for depositors over $250 K cannot be paid out to all. Way too much money involved. The way I, so far, understand it is the SVB payout will come from fees the banks have to pay into a fund. I have heard conflicting reports about this fund. Regardless seems likely we will wind up paying higher bank fees as one result. Overall still a risky event.

I mean the whole purpose of the FDIC is to promote banking stability and avert another banking crisis, so from that perspective, them going above the 250k insurance threshold makes sense because if people lose faith in the banking system then everything** topples.

Unfortunately it still doesn't seem to be enough, even with the lending program they just added. Credit suisse is still topling, even after being bought out by UBS, and first republic bank is also imploding. A lot of these banks are over leveraged in high risk assets, such as cash-intensive tech startups (junk bonds), crypto, probably even sub-prime mortgage backed securities. Not to mention that these banks are tied up in longer-term treasuries and having to sell their assets at a loss to cover the bank runs. It's not a good time to be an over-leveraged small bank

 

[shogun32]

I mean the whole purpose of the FDIC is to promote banking stability and avert another banking crisis

no, it's to pretend to the people not paying attention (99.9%) that their pissant accounts will still exist even if the bank folded. But the capitalization of the FDIC is so laughable, it can't save more than a very small handful of small banks. The likes of WF have trouble, the FDIC can't even come close. If the FDIC was supposed to really guarentee a nation's deposits, even on just a fractional basis - because it's UNPOSSIBLE that ALL banks would ALL be guilty of rank shinanigans and unsound on principle... Oh wait !!!

, so from that perspective, them going above the 250k insurance threshold makes sense because if people lose faith in the banking system then everything** topples.

Except the people with over 250K are SUPPOSED to be paying bloody attention to money management and smart enough to diversify. THEIR STUPIDITY AND LAZINESS is SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THEM and make them eat the consequences of the former. What FED/OCC/FDIC was bail out themselves who weren't ENFORCING their own rules and closing SVB a YEAR AGO or forcing the bank to fix itself while bearing the necessary losses, before it went supernova. It's just icing on the cake that SVB had a metric ton of Israel and Chinese investor money and likewise of celebrities and politicians of a certain political bent compatible with the current admin.

Now with the implicit guarantee of ALL deposits banks have a greenlight to be even more irresponsible with depositor money and ratchet up the risk of a nation-wide collapse. Banking is supposed to be an ultra conservative activity with near-BUPKIS profits, not a tax-payer guaranteed den of financial sins, skimming, and counterfeiting and overall get-rich-scheme. But since the 80's especially everything has been financialized and we KEEP REAPING THE WIRLWIND of stupid and greed running banking instead of putting such actors up against the wall. We used to hang horse thieves. Bankers deserve the same or worse.

 

[MurphGT]

no, it's to pretend to the people not paying attention (99.9%) that their pissant accounts will still exist even if the bank folded. But the capitalization of the FDIC is so laughable, it can't save more than a very small handful of small banks. The likes of WF have trouble, the FDIC can't even come close. If the FDIC was supposed to really guarentee a nation's deposits, even on just a fractional basis - because it's UNPOSSIBLE that ALL banks would ALL be guilty of rank shinanigans and unsound on principle... Oh wait !!!


Except the people with over 250K are SUPPOSED to be paying bloody attention to money management and smart enough to diversify. THEIR STUPIDITY AND LAZINESS is SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THEM and make them eat the consequences of the former. What FED/OCC/FDIC was bail out themselves who weren't ENFORCING their rules and closing SVB a YEAR AGO or forcing the bank to fix itself before it went supernova and book the HUGE losses it MUST bore. It's just icing on the cake that SVB had a metric ton of Israel and Chinese investor money and likewise of celebrities and politicians of a certain political bent compatible with the current admin.

Now with the implicit guarantee of ALL deposits banks have a greenlight to be even more irresponsible with depositor money and ratchet up the risk of a nation-wide collapse. Banking is supposed to be an ultra conservative activity with near-BUPKIS profits, not a tax-payer guaranteed den of financial sins, skimming, and counterfeiting and overall get-rich-scheme. But since the 80's especially everything has been financialized and we KEEP REAPING THE WIRLWIND of stupid and greed running banking instead of putting such actors up against the wall. We used to hang horse thieves. Bankers deserve the same or worse.

I mean to be fair, I never said the purpose of the FDIC was to gurantee an entire nationss deposits, only that it was created with the intent of promoting bank stability (and 250k insurance per individual per bank is much more assuring than $0 insurance per individual, per bank) which is why they created it after the great depression when people got wiped out.

And I agree that it's a good idea to spread your money out among major banks to increase your insured deposits. 100% agree with that, but I don't think people/businesses that have over 250k should be completely destroyed if the bank mismanages its assets. A lot of cash intensive tech startups, commercial real estate and/or construction companies typically rely on regional banks (either because they aren't considered "bank-able" and cannot obtain funding through conventional channels, so they rely on smaller banks that are willing to fund the company at a much larger risk-adjusted rate, or they go through venture capital firms that have direct connections with the regional bank, and again, pay a risk-premium). Letting these types of banks and/or business implode wouldn't be conducive to maintaining consumer confidence in the banking system. At the same time I do agree that fully insuring all deposits above the 250k FDIC limit can be reckless and encourage even more risky lending practices. I guess they would rather air on the side of caution and prevent a domino-effect of bank and business implosions (but this seems to be happening anyways. Even with all of the re-assurances, you can see the fear contagion spreading to Europe and other continents)

 

[snakeyes]

Hey folks - bottom line,

Dealers are Pirates some have beards, some don’t…!!!

 

[RagmopInKona]

There’s nothing shady or unethical about the dealer trying to make money any legal way he sees fit as long as you aren’t forced into paying his silly charges or tricked into paying. Maybe it’s slimy and he’s taking advantage of the market but you didn’t have to buy it and you didn’t. No harm, no foul, not shady. Actually the polar opposite of shady; he was right up front with what he was trying to do and you walked. He gave you fair notice and you took full advantage of it.

I get the impression you may not fully understand the sales process. Financing through the dealer is nowhere close to being just another payment method like cash. The dealer makes significant money from the financing when you go through him. It frequently is in the thousands of dollars and usually more than the total gross profit he makes from selling you the car. Of course he has a vested interest in you financing with him.

It is shady when you never bring up the fees till the buyer states they want the vehicle, THEN in tv ad small print ad guy speaking super fast . Blast off the added fees.
I think the issue is the salesman when he asked "do you have a trade" and was told no never brought up the 2000.00 fee,charge , same with financing. Telling the buyer after you settled on a price is SHADY AS DUCK .
Just as bad as the dealers that list a vehicles price on their site that no one will ever see as you have to be able to get every offered rebate . And that isn't going to happen. Quirk is known for this. You'd have to be a in military or retired and new college graduate,and first responder, and returning ford lease customer and a few others that escape me right now .
Silly me thinking I could walk in with 42k and BUY the car for the price on their web site and news paper ad.
Another in N.H. had my deposit on a car and because I was not using there banks sold the car out from under me. I still have the signed docs .
Many dealers think because they have one of 3 in the country at that time. That day you will fold and go . Ok.

 

[shogun32]

I don't think people/businesses that have over 250k should be completely destroyed if the bank mismanages its assets.

sure, but said folks are more than capable of having multiple accounts, or going to TreasuryDirect and buying 8wk or 6mo paper with all funds over 250K times N institutions.

 

[young at heart]

Hey folks - bottom line,

Dealers are Pirates some have beards, some don’t…!!!

Right. These days, most don’t. Especially the smart ones.

Thing is, rather than sit around and complain about it online, a smart buyer will expect it and prepare himself accordingly. You may get better treatment than this, but the most you have any real right to expect is that a dealer behaves himself legally. I’m sorry, but the rest is on you. If you can’t outsmart him by yourself, I urge you to take someone in with you who can. I’m not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp…

It may occasionally happen, but counting on a dealer to treat you fairly out of the goodness of his heart is like trying to sweet-talk a lion that is poised to attack you. Good luck!

 

[AZlb5.0]

Like I have said you have to be smart enou to walk away even from a car that you really want. Why because something else might come along at a better price or better offer. That’s what I did with my ‘18. I walked away and I got a call back the next day.

 

[snakeyes]

in my lifetime I shudder to think of the number of cars I have bought - so no lectures please… ha, in the last two years I just counted 14 - yup

 

[traxiii]

I'm biting my tongue wanting to call out by name a shady Ford dealer over in Florida that is absolute . Vultures I tell ya.

Why? They obviously don't want my business. Colorado resident with cash to spend for another pony toy to play with.

The following charges were applied to me and were non negotiable. 8 year old mustang gt with 60k miles. I walked just because it was pointless to start a fight when they didn't want my money/business anyway. I still get irritated by this though.

-No trade +$2000.00
-No financing +$2000.00
-Government fees +$544.95 <--- literally, WTF is this?
-Doc fee +$1200.00
-Reconditioning fee +$1000.00 <--- bitch this gets built into the asking price, not a separate fee.
-Nitrogen filled tires +$595.00


I should have asked where my additional market adjustment fee was. Looks like that one was missing.

Holly Cow, I paid the following when I bought my Mach1 from Granger Motors. BTW, the MSRP was $65,450

Price of Vehicle: $58,157 - 2% Under Invoice
Documentary Fee: $180
Title Fee: $35
Out the Door: $ 58,372

Tax and License Paid later when I Registered in CA.
I have no plans to ever buy another new car, but if I did, I would order it from Granger Motors, Granger Iowa in a heartbeat.

 

[young at heart]

in my lifetime I shudder to think of the number of cars I have bought - so no lectures please… ha, in the last two years I just counted 14 - yup

OK then, question: if you’re experienced and are more than capable of doing battle with the dealer, why are you complaining about his behavior? Sounds to me like you should expect it and can deal with it effectively.

 

[snakeyes]

I walked away from the sale - and reported their behavior to the group to warn others - period. If you read the FUCKING thread from the beginning you would have seen that

 

[Oakley]

OK then, question: if you’re experienced and are more than capable of doing battle with the dealer, why are you complaining about his behavior? Sounds to me like you should expect it and can deal with it effectively.

i'm extremely experienced, expect it, and will blast these clowns every chance i get because you cannot remind people enough that these people deserve to be taken to the cleaners every chance you get because they do it to unsuspecting people every day.

there are exceptions to the rule but that's the rule. my objective is to make it quick because they don't make much off me and if they don't do that i just make it painful but i never ever EVER overpay if they get anything from me.

 

[docmogas]

I hope young at heart is just trolling and not a shady dealer apologist

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