Is Ford lacking on performance?

[Norm Peterson]

And then you'd bitch when GTs cost as much over here as they do across the pond.

If I lived over there, I'd be taking price points with a different frame of reference. I'd have to, if I was going to look at any US car at all.

Plus, over there, people actually buy cars that fit their needs... so, when they buy a sports car, they buy it for sporting purposes. People don't do that in America, and that's why you see SO many base mustangs.

Agreed.

You should also know by now that any car I'm ever going to want to buy is going to have to have more than just a little sporting blood in it. Fun to drive, especially on roads that go most every which way but straight. And I've been that way since before I could even consider buying a new car. In that respect, maybe I was born on the wrong side of the pond :shrug: .

Having PP1 as the base is an absolutely awful idea. Besides, your largest gripe seems to be that the PP1 doesn't perform (in your eyes) as well as it should. So, tell me, what would making it the base model change?

Not sure what would have been so awful about making the base level at least closer to PP1. Then, any performance-named upgrade would have taken performance a bit more seriously.


Sort of related . . . you might want to take a closer look at the non-PP1 front rotors on the US version . . . the internal vents draw cooling air from the wheel side. You'll probably have to settle for pictures of this, since the PP1 rotors have the 'good' airflow direction.


Norm

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[jake_zx2]

If I lived over there, I'd be taking price points with a different frame of reference. I'd have to, if I was going to look at any US car at all.

New US cars are still pretty fairly priced over here compared to their German competitors

Agreed.

You should also know by now that any car I'm ever going to want to buy is going to have to have more than just a little sporting blood in it. Fun to drive, especially on roads that go most every which way but straight. And I've been that way since before I could even consider buying a new car. In that respect, maybe I was born on the wrong side of the pond :shrug: .

Agreed. Trust me though, you'd hate it even more over here... modifying cars and still being able to pass inspection is a PITA. Luckily, my inspection is always due in the winter, so I remove all my racing parts in the off-season

Not sure what would have been so awful about making the base level at least closer to PP1. Then, any performance-named upgrade would have taken performance a bit more seriously.

Because it pushes away people (The general buying public in the US) who want a cheap, cushy, sporty looking car. Not everyone needs the performance pack, and even Chevy is taking a page from that book. Making PP1 the base would do absolutely nothing but hurt sales.

Sort of related . . . you might want to take a closer look at the non-PP1 front rotors on the US version . . . the internal vents draw cooling air from the wheel side. You'll probably have to settle for pictures of this, since the PP1 rotors have the 'good' airflow direction.

Seen it, and they're smaller and cheaper to replace than PP rotors, and also allow for lower offset wheels to match the skinny tires that are cheaper to replace than summer performance 19x255/275... you know, something that the general buying public worries about

Red

 

[Norm Peterson]

Agreed. Trust me though, you'd hate it even more over here... modifying cars and still being able to pass inspection is a PITA. Luckily, my inspection is always due in the winter, so I remove all my racing parts in the off-season

If I had to worry about that I wouldn't want to start with anything less than the PP2.

Over the years I've had to do various kinds of de-modding to suit periodic motor vehicle inspections myself. Just not recently, and I'd rather not ever get back on that treadmill.


I'm not seeing why the plane of the rotor couldn't be put in the same location with rear air inlet, or at least within a few mm of the same place as those backwards non-PP things.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

If I had to worry about that I wouldn't want to start with anything less than the PP2.

Over the years I've had to do various kinds of de-modding to suit periodic motor vehicle inspections myself. Just not recently, and I'd rather not ever get back on that treadmill.


I'm not seeing why the plane of the rotor couldn't be put in the same location with rear air inlet, or at least within a few mm of the same place as those backwards non-PP things.


Norm

I wouldn't be surprised if PP2 isn't sold in europe... I don't think it's been officially announced yet, but the size of the splitter and protrusion of the front wheels past the fenders would be considered "pedestrian hazards" here in Germany.


I'd bet it has to do with parts sharing... they probably had to match the offset for the 4 piston calipers to share the calipers with another vehicle in the Ford lineup (maybe the F150?)

 

[EJS2016]

Enough with the red print...it's obnoxious.
Just let your words speak for themselves.

 

[jake_zx2]

Enough with the red print...it's obnoxious.
Just let your words speak for themselves.

That's the easiest and most accurate way to reply to a long comment, big fella. The color isn't changing the tone. would it make you happier if I used purple?

Ultimately, if you're getting offended by the color of the letters, then you're the problem

 

[Timeless]

Enough with the red print...it's obnoxious.
Just let your words speak for themselves.

That's the easiest and most accurate way to reply to a long comment, big fella. The color isn't changing the tone. would it make you happier if I used purple?

Ultimately, if you're getting offended by the color of the letters, then you're the problem

Not that it matters but I also skip the replies with the red lettering.

It just visually looks weird and is harder to read.

For me I think it is the red lettering being put within the quote. :shrug:

 

[jake_zx2]

Personally, I find it easier when people do that... when they reply seperately, I always find myself going back and forth between OP and reply to see what exactly they're referring to. Plus, it makes it easier for me to write it

 

[Norm Peterson]

For me I think it is the red lettering being put within the quote. :shrug:

I limit what I quote to what I'm going to respond to, which ought to have been enough. Do I have to do everything for you?


The real PITA part is that responses made within the original quote do not copy over to any of the follow-on replies.


Norm

 

[NoVaGT]

So let's forget every single word everybody has typed about this to date. Here, elsewhere, even Ford's own announcements.

Suppose you're selling a car that's (obviously) got a base level suspension/wheel/tires/etc., and something called 'Performance Package' that's of somewhat higher performance potential. Your main competition also has a base level car, but its performance package is of significantly higher performance capability. Wouldn't you expect (or at least want) your officially-tagged 'Performance Package' to be closer to the competition's performance package than to its base-level? Wouldn't you want your PP to perform at a clear distance above the competition's base car, even if it doesn't quite match the other guy's PP?


Norm

Good Sir Norm;

We here on the forums have a very myopic look at such things. We're the few, the retarded, the true enthusiasts. We're people that take these cars and make them something very important in our lives.

We have to be objective.

99% of people that buy Mustangs do so for their looks. Only a few of us buy them because of their performance. And even fewer do comparisons of tires, suspension, cooling, etc.

So, do 90%+ of buyers care about performance they'll never use or care about? No.

 

[Grintch]

Good Sir Norm;

We here on the forums have a very myopic look at such things. We're the few, the retarded, the true enthusiasts. We're people that take these cars and make them something very important in our lives.

We have to be objective.

99% of people that buy Mustangs do so for their looks. Only a few of us buy them because of their performance. And even fewer do comparisons of tires, suspension, cooling, etc.

So, do 90%+ of buyers care about performance they'll never use or care about? No.

Will that 90% bebuying the $6500/8500 PP2 package?*

Why comment to a performance discussion if you don't care about performance?

You don't see me posting in forums about which is the best Pokémon.*

Or maybe I should take the statement that you don't care about performance as a agreement that the Mustang lacks it, or at least lacks some of the performance equipment that it's direct competition has (which is an absolute fact, despite all the hand waving trying to avoid the subject).*

 

[Brian_S550]

LOL Yeah, Agreed.

Personally I think the Thunderbird with a manual would have helped sales, as the auto in it really held it back, and the Marauder while it was huge and DID have their best NA 4/6 at the time should have perhaps come with 96-98 Cobra intake cams for a bit more power to get that extra weight moving. I don't see a manual helping that car much. Grant it, the Marauder wasn't intended to be a performance car, more a throaty, more powerful, "move the family while looking bad ass" car. Maybe a gear change could have helped it?

I’ve spent time in a decent number of modded Marauders, and yes... absolutely a rearend gear swap by itself will make a big difference.

Not sure a manual option on the last gen Thunderbird would have resulted in selling more than about 12 additional units, though.

 

[Timeless]

I limit what I quote to what I'm going to respond to, which ought to have been enough. Do I have to do everything for you?

Not sure why you chose me on this reply as my reply was to [MENTION=24829]jake_zx2[/MENTION]

 

[Norm Peterson]

Not sure why you chose me on this reply as my reply was to @jake_zx2

Because me quoting his (red) text was, well, . . . even more red text inside of a quote.


Norm

 

[EJS2016]

Not that it matters but I also skip the replies with the red lettering.

It just visually looks weird and is harder to read.

For me I think it is the red lettering being put within the quote. :shrug:

It’s really about a self-inflated ego and the need to prove one’s opinions and experiences are more relevant and deserve much more attention than anyone else’s.
Personally, I probably stopped writing with colors in about 1969, when I was six.

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