Interesting drag race

[Bob Lob Law]

Congrats on proving my point for me. Chevy decided to devote the time, resources and finances to engineer a better product.

Ford for S550 to S650:

"Hey, let's plaster a massive iPad to the dash, give it some hideous, busy-body styling, and call it the S650 to fool buyers into thinking that this is an all new model. Yeah. Yeah! This sounds like a great idea! We've hit the jackpot now, boys!!!"

Again, not a Chevy fan boy. Have actually never owned a Chevy. But the difference in approach is stark.

But I guess Ford knew that their competition was dead so they decided, "Why bother?" And in a way they're right.

No, you missed my point. They had to go to a mid engine layout to get that. Ford is not going to change the mustang to a mid engine. The camaro is what you should be comparing it to, not the vette, as they are not the direct competitors! Ford doesn't make a competitor for the vette. You just sound silly!

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[EFI]

I just wish that they would have given it more thought.

I just think a bit more effort could go a long way in making a good product a really good product.

Again, this is the GT version which is meant to be a street grand tourer, not a track focused machine. For that, they gave us higher models that are more track focused so that the GT can remain affordable and streetable.

If the GT was the top of the line model, I would 100% agree with you that it's lagging behind. But seeing as how they gave us more models, that is perfectly fine with me. They improved the Mustang overall but just called it a different trim level.

I like choice...if you want a cheap floaty cruiser you get the GT. If you want a basic track car that is streetable you get the Mach1/DH. If you want a track focused machine, you get the GTD. Why pimp out the basic GT trim with all the track bells and whistles for the 0.1% of owners that want that while alienating 99.9% of the owners? Again it goes back to choice and I think Ford is doing great at giving people just that rather than force-feeding stiff solid bushings to everyone and telling them to deal with it.

 

[robvas]

0-60 is such a useless metric...

A 'fast' S197 or S550 A6 GT is about 3/4 of a second, and 5-6 mph slower in the 1/4 than a 'fast' S550 A10 GT

That's huge.

 

[Less Weight]

Again, this is the GT version which is meant to be a street grand tourer, not a track focused machine. For that, they gave us higher models that are more track focused so that the GT can remain affordable and streetable.

If the GT was the top of the line model, I would 100% agree with you that it's lagging behind. But seeing as how they gave us more models, that is perfectly fine with me. They improved the Mustang overall but just called it a different trim level.

I like choice...if you want a cheap floaty cruiser you get the GT. If you want a basic track car that is streetable you get the Mach1/DH. If you want a track focused machine, you get the GTD. Why pimp out the basic GT trim with all the track bells and whistles for the 0.1% of owners that want that while alienating 99.9% of the owners? Again it goes back to choice and I think Ford is doing great at giving people just that rather than force-feeding stiff solid bushings to everyone and telling them to deal with it.

No, I get what you're saying but that's what the base GT is for. For the person who wants the V8 cruiser AND the comfy ride. But even the PP cars have all that rubber.

And really, you can do away with all that rubber sloppiness in the sub frame and still have a comfy ride via a good spring rate/shock dampening.

Like I said, just a bit more thought and effort. Not looking for GT500 or GTD levels of performance. Just do away with the weird engineering choices.

And what trim level were talking about is irrelevant. Every new model of a car should get better. This isn't a comparative thing as it relates to other models within a car's stable (no pun intended). In other words the GT should get better with every generation, independent of what's going on with the big dog Mustangs. After all, the GT is the long standing model in the line-up. The perennial model that has been waving the flag for Ford for the past decades.

 

[Less Weight]

No, you missed my point. They had to go to a mid engine layout to get that. Ford is not going to change the mustang to a mid engine. The camaro is what you should be comparing it to, not the vette, as they are not the direct competitors! Ford doesn't make a competitor for the vette. You just sound silly!

I didn't miss your point. You missed my point. A engineering minded company will find ways to improve a model. Chevy decided to. Ford hasn't.

Sounding silly is all you, my man.

 

[EFI]

Every new model of a car should get better.

And they did. The 15-17 is vastly better than the S197 in all aspects. The 18-23 is vastly better in performance than the 15-17. The S650 is vastly better in interior looks and such.

They all get better in some regards, but you can't honestly expect everything to be significantly better than the previous version while still maintaining a price point. This is still a basic middle of the road car for Ford, not their flagship like the Corvette. And the Corvette had 1 generational leap from C7 to C8...all the others were as minor as the Mustang. The C6 wasn't that much better than the C5, the C7 wasn't that much better than the C6 etc.

Chevy decided to

For their flagship car. Are they doing the same for the Camaro which is more inline with the Mustang and where it sits in their lineup?

 

[robvas]

The S650 is vastly better in interior looks and such.

 

[EFI]

I mean I don't agree, personally I think it's overdone.

But generally people like all the fancy screens and technology. What I'm saying is Ford focused and improved (pending personal preference) the interior mainly going to the S650.

 

[Less Weight]

0-60 is such a useless metric...

A 'fast' S197 or S550 A6 GT is about 3/4 of a second, and 5-6 mph slower in the 1/4 than a 'fast' S550 A10 GT

That's huge.

It's not a useless metric. There's a reason it came about. It tests a multitude of aspects of a car. Grip, chassis sophistication, power to weight ratio, weight distribution, electronic/software advancements.

Why do you think that Porsches are so adept at the 0-60 blast? They've been perfecting that formula for decades. Obviously Porsches are far more expensive so I'm not saying that a GT Mustang get to sixty in the low 2 second range but seeing the cars get heavier with no gains on the acceleration front from the S550 to the S650 is a bit disappointing.

 

[robvas]

It's not a useless metric. There's a reason it came about. It tests a multitude of aspects of a car. Grip, chassis sophistication, power to weight ratio, weight distribution, electronic/software advancements.

Why do you think that Porsches are so adept at the 0-60 blast? They've been perfecting that formula for decades. Obviously Porsches are far more expensive so I'm not saying that a GT Mustang get to sixty in the low 2 second range but seeing the cars get heavier with no gains on the acceleration front from the S550 to the S650 is a bit disappointing.

It's useless the way it's measured on the street especially with the built in timer in the dash. Street surface, tires, blah blah.

All it measures is a launch/traction. A WRX for example, (or an Ecoboost on drag radials) can have a 'fast' 0-60 but they are still slower than shit past that.

Like I said, you are trying to use 0-60 between two cars that have a huge difference in the 1/4 mile. 0-60 doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[Less Weight]

And they did. The 15-17 is vastly better than the S197 in all aspects. The 18-23 is vastly better in performance than the 15-17. The S650 is vastly better in interior looks and such.

They all get better in some regards, but you can't honestly expect everything to be significantly better than the previous version while still maintaining a price point. This is still a basic middle of the road car for Ford, not their flagship like the Corvette. And the Corvette had 1 generational leap from C7 to C8...all the others were as minor as the Mustang. The C6 wasn't that much better than the C5, the C7 wasn't that much better than the C6 etc.



For their flagship car. Are they doing the same for the Camaro which is more inline with the Mustang and where it sits in their lineup?

Except the Mustang is Ford's flagship! Unlike Chevy which had the Camaro and the Corvette, the performance model for Ford has always consistently been the Mustang. The GT40 has always been an expensive year or 2 special and then it disappears

Ford should have invested in the Mustang's architecture a bit more. More aluminum, less steel. The Mustang has been a volume seller for decades. Ford could have invested in a ground up re-do like Chevy did.

And I'm going to have to disagree with "vastly". Vastly is what Chevy did between the C7 and the C8. Ford has been incremental at best and non-existent at worst. As evidenced by you sighting the interior of the S650 to show the improvements between the previous model

But listen, I'm at work now and have a shit ton to do. Enough wasting company money! Be glad to continue our gentlemanly discussion later

 

[Bob Lob Law]

 

[hlfbkd420]

My question is.... Where does the corvette go from here? The Stingray can't evolve much if they want to keep the same price point. Which is already past a GT Premium. All those improvements are going to keep raising the average starting price... And the age of the driver's too.

Plus... Who cares about a corvette? I've never had anyone driving one try to race me.. They just hard park.

 

[EFI]

More aluminum, less steel. The Mustang has been a volume seller for decades. Ford could have invested in a ground up re-do like Chevy did.

Why do you think it's been a volume seller for decades? Because they kept the price relatively low.

Sure you can re-design the Mustang from the ground up with all aluminum and solid bushings everywhere, but then it becomes an $100k starting car that noone wants to buy.

Do you see the Corvette being a high volume seller? No because it's an expensive niche car, which can afford to do ground up redesigns and charge a premium. That's not going to work for the Mustang.

I think because the Mustang is their defacto flagship performance car you expect it to be some exotic machine that gets ground-up redesigns every generation.

 

[robvas]

Do you see the Corvette being a high volume seller? No because it's an expensive niche car, which can afford to do ground up redesigns and charge a premium. That's not going to work for the Mustang.

2023 Production Numbers:
Mustang - 61,165
Corvette - 53,807

Not too far off each other

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