I Know... Another AGS Thread

[WolfMxbee]

Okay so I am leaning towards doing the CVF Street Intercooler, my aim is towards 400+ WHP with my ecoboost, short story is I like to shred through the canyon roads here in Cali. I am currently working on suspension and chassis bracing but would like to decrease my inlet air Temps, so in the canyons i see speeds up anywhere from 40mph to 60+ and I DO want to keep my AGS. So here's my questions that pertain to keeping them and I do know that everyone recommends to delete them.

Question 1 - Do I need a tune for the bigger intercooler (street - factory style) for the added air velocity and for the ags to function with the intercooler

Question 2 - How do the AGS rely on temp, does it open based on coolant temp because if the upgraded intercooler temp is cooler then stock then would the AGS stay closed and cause the intercooler to heat up from reduce air flow until the radiator reaches a certain temperature for them to open which wouldnt even make a noticeable difference? You can consider mysetup and goal to be more towards track but not necessarily time attack since I'm getting into constant high speeds and straight lines.

Question 3 - so I like to rely on numbers verses not feeling any differences because let's be honest, most mods sometimes aren't noticeable from the good Ole butt dyno as I'm referring to removing the AGS as I know it does reduce drag and keep trapped air from recirculating under the hood and have no where to go resulting in drag. And yes it's super light and result in a type of weight reduction but again not noticeable so not worried about weight savings verse noticing weight savings from seats and back seat delete.

Anyways I wanna keep the AGS and wanna know how the AGS functions and what it relies on to see if it'll affect the upgrade intercooler to perform how it should and if I need a tune for a upgraded intercooler or if I just need a tune to have the AGS table to function properly for the upgraded intercooler, any help appreciated really thank you!

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[Buldawg76]

Active Grille Shutter - Overview
Overview

The active grille shutter system (when equipped) is comprised of the grille shutter assembly and the grille shutter actuator. The active grille shutter system is primarily used to maximize fuel economy by reducing aerodynamic drag on the vehicle. The active grille shutter system is also used to shorten engine warm-up time, increasing engine efficiency and providing heat to the vehicle occupants in a timely manner. The grille shutter actuator receives position commands from the PCM . The active grille shutter system carries out a calibration sequence whenever the engine is started, fully opening and closing the shutters before being positioned in the programmed position as requested by the PCM .

PCM inputs/outputs that may be used for controlling of grille shutters are the:

• ECT sensor
• IAT sensor
• A/C pressure transducer
• APP sensor
• ABS module (through the HS-CAN )
• AAT (ambient air temperature) sensor
• TCT (turbo charge temperature) sensor
• MCT (manifold charge temperature) sensor
• TOT (transmission oil temperature) sensor
• Engine cooling fan motor
• Engine oil temperature

#1, You do not heed a tune to install a street size intercooler.

#2, see above info. Installing a street IC will have no effect/change on how the AGS operate. But will improve the intake temps to keep engine power from being lowered due to reduced timing from raised intake temps.

#3, The AGs will not really be functional/operational at speeds below 70 mph while at or close to WOT operation. It is more for steady speeds above 70 mph and in very cold ambient temps' situations to help keep engine temps at normal operating temps for heater operation.
Canyon carving will never allow the shutters to close since you are on/off throttle constantly.

The AGS is mainly for EPA fuel efficiency ratings by reducing aero drag at highway speeds to improve the CAFE numbers.

BD

 

[WolfMxbee]

Thank you so much for that! That really did benefit snd answer all my questions and in that case then im glad I plan on keeping then so they have an additional benefit

 

[Radiation Joe]

The AGS is mainly for EPA fuel efficiency ratings by reducing aero drag at highway speeds to improve the CAFE numbers.

BD

Although it does affect CAFE numbers, the reason why is it increases the intake charge temperature. There are no aero affects.
There were engines designed way back when by I believe Smokey Yunick (search hot vapor) that relied upon high temperatures for high efficiency. I'm pretty sure this is the basis for the AGS.

 

[Buldawg76]

I remember reading about that ceramic blocked super heated engine that Smokey tested in the 80s.

There are some aero effects from the shutters closing just none that are of any real benefit at the speeds we drive at normally in terms of fuel milage. Just as so called ram air scoops or intakes have no real benefits at street driven speeds. To get only 3% gains from ram air effect you must be going 160 mph and 400 mph only gives a measly 20% increase which is what a P51 Mustang saw from the huge scoop under the front of the fuselage.

So is likely more for heat retention in intake indeed. I have my shutters unplugged so they remain open at all speeds to keep the intake temps as low as possible for the benefit to the boost air charge.

BD

 

[Cobra Jet]

Regarding AGS:

So here's a complete explanation from Ford to what the AGS system does - found it on the Ford Austrailia site - same system in the US products:
https://www.ford.com.au/technology/active-grill-shutter/

As others have already stated, the only way the AGS system is really beneficial is when on a highway and at sustained highway speeds - and if traveling in such a way every day.... other than that, it's just added weight to the front end and more parts to service/break.

 

[shogun32]

So here's a complete explanation from Ford to what the AGS system does - found it on the Ford Austrailia site - same system in the US products:
https://www.ford.com.au/technology/active-grill-shutter/

apparently the AI has taken over and censored that information in the interests of corporate secrecy and valuable intellectual property...

 

[Buldawg76]

Yep, we've been censored.

BD

 

[Cobra Jet]

Pfffffft….censor where…

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20170120743A1/en

https://gearsmagazine.com/magazine/...utters-and-how-they-affect-your-transmission/

Description of Ford System:

General Description
Aerodynamic drag is reduced by closing electrically- actuated louvers placed in the vehicles' grill openings. The improvement in aerodynamic drag due to closing the shutter system varies approximately with the speed of the vehicle squared. The shutters also assist with engine warm-up -- reducing parasitic losses from cold fluid viscosity effects and assisting windshield defrost performance.

The active shutter system has a variable position control system integrated into the PCM. The strategy determines the shutter opening based on engine cooling requests.

This strategy is integrated with and analogous to Ford's fan control system, determining the powertrain cooling needs based on key inputs such as engine coolant temperature, intake air temperature, ambient temperature, vehicle speed, throttle position, and A/C head pressure. For example, during closed pedal conditions the cooling request is reduced to help close the shutters, anticipating the reduction in heat load for the low load condition. The shutters are also likely opened under braking events to take advantage of these "no cost" powertrain cooling opportunities. Under potential snow and ice conditions the shutters are kept partially open (~30%) to avoid freezing the shutters closed.

Ford has developed a process for ensuring that the AGS system remains sufficiently closed to provide at least 75% effectiveness over an FTP, Highway, and US06 test run using a Road Speed Modulated Fan (RSF), where fan speed is proportional to the vehicle speed. The 75% effectiveness determination utilizes the position of the AGS over this drive cycle, weighted by the aerodynamic effectiveness and vehicle speed and excluding any braking events.

When grill shutters are installed on an application, different configurations are available and can include shutters in all or only part of the front openings (grill and / or bumper). Some turbo charged vehicle applications utilize a secondary set of independently controlled grill shutters, which modulate the air flow to the charge air cooler heat exchanger. The primary function of these shutters is to maintain an optimum temperature of the boosted intake air to maximize performance and to mitigate condensate formation.

Ford Methodology/Data:
• Wind tunnel data collected on prototype vehicle with shutters disabled, then repeated with shutters enabled.
• Determined the aero benefits (counts of aero).
• Utilized the TSD performance metric to determine the corresponding benefit in CO2 reduction
associated with the % improvement for both cars and trucks.
• Actual calculations based on testing prototypes that provide data representative of production values.
• Development data consists of estimates based on clay model testing.

—-
From shop manual:

Active grill shutter overview

The active grille shutter system (when equipped) is comprised of the grille shutter assembly and the grille shutter actuator.

The active grille shutter system is primarily used to maximize fuel economy by reducing aerodynamic drag on the vehicle. The active grille shutter system is also used to shorten engine warm-up time, increasing engine efficiency and providing heat to the vehicle occupants in a timely manner. The grille shutter actuator receives position commands from the PCM. The active grille shutter system carries out a calibration sequence whenever the engine is started, fully opening and closing the shutters before being positioned in the programmed position as requested by the PCM.

PCM inputs/outputs that may be used for controlling of grille shutters are the:
ECT sensor
IAT sensor
A/C pressure transducer
APP sensor
ABS module (through the HS-CAN)
AAT (ambient air temperature) sensor
TCT (turbo charge temperature) sensor
MCT (manifold charge temperature) sensor
TOT (transmission oil temperature) sensor
Engine cooling fan motor
Engine oil temperature
501-02 Front End Body Panels 2020 Mustang
Description and Operation Procedure revision date: 06/20/2016

Active Grille Shutter - System Operation andComponentDescription

SystemOperation
SystemDiagram
Network Message Chart
PCM Network Input Messages

Broadcast Message	Originating Module	Message Purpose
Vehicle speed	ABS module	Vehicle speed is used to determine positioning of the grille shutters.

Active Grille Shutter
The grille shutter actuator positions the grille shutters based on commands from the PCM. The grille shutter moves 90 degrees from fully closed to fully open and, based on the position commanded by the PCM, is set in 1 of 16 positions (approximately 6 degrees between positions).

During normal operation, the grille shutter may be partially to fully open when the engine is off, depending on the ambient temperature. After an engine starting event, a calibration of the grille shutter system occurs, which typically takes 15-20 seconds. The grille shutter system performs the calibration sequence by detecting the end positions, open and closed. The calibration sequence can begin in either direction, open or closed, and continues until it is successful, or a fault is sensed. A long pause may occur between the 2 portions (open/close) of the calibration sequence.

If certain faults are present (shutter blocked or actuator error), a recalibration is initiated in an attempt to resolve the problem. If the problem is not resolved after a calibrated number of attempts (usually 3 or 4), a timer starts and sets a DTC when the timer reaches a predetermined limit. Other faults also trigger a recalibration request, but not until a grille shutter DTC is set in the PCM.

The PCM communicates the desired position (open or closed) of the grille shutter based on various PCM inputs (vehicle speed, coolant temperature, ambient temperature, A/C system pressure, etc.). The PCM communicates to the grille shutter actuator via a LIN. The LIN supports bi-directional communication between the grille shutter actuator and PCM, allowing the grille shutter actuator to communicate position and fault information to the PCM.

The PCM sets grille shutter Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) when the fault information is communicated by the grille shutter actuator for a predetermined amount of time. Any failures of the LIN for over 10 seconds continuously results in the grille shutter actuator positioning the grille shutter fully open. There is no indication to the driver of the vehicle when a fault with the grille shutter system is present or a grille shutter DTC is set in the PCM.

Component Description

Grille Shutter Actuator
The grille shutter actuator is a smart motor which receives position requests from the PCM via the LIN. One of the grille shutter blinds connects to the grille shutter actuator using a retainer. The grille shutter actuator can be serviced individually or as part of an entire assembly, which includes the grille shutter, grille shutter actuator, retainer, housing and jumper harness.

Grille Shutter
The grille shutter is comprised of shutter blinds which are linked to each other in a framed housing. One of the individual shutter blinds is fixed to the grille shutter actuator. When the grille shutter actuator moves, it moves the attached shutter which causes the other linked shutters to move. The grille shutter is serviced as an assembly (individual shutter blinds are not serviceable), which includes the grille shutter, grille shutter actuator, retainer, housing and jumper harness.

 

[MD18EcoStang]

Regarding AGS:

So here's a complete explanation from Ford to what the AGS system does - found it on the Ford Austrailia site - same system in the US products:
https://www.ford.com.au/technology/active-grill-shutter/

As others have already stated, the only way the AGS system is really beneficial is when on a highway and at sustained highway speeds - and if traveling in such a way every day.... other than that, it's just added weight to the front end and more parts to service/break.

Said it before and I'll say it again... Glad my 18 PP came from the factory without grille shutters. Worthless, IMHO.

 

[Buldawg76]

I have mine unplugged so they are always open, but I do like them for the fact that the lower IC shutters are angled slightly downward in the fully open position to help direct the air into the IC since it sits a bit lower than the lower grill opening. When looking thru the grill opening you can only see the upper half of the IC.

BD

 

[Cobra Jet]

Said it before and I'll say it again... Glad my 18 PP came from the factory without grille shutters. Worthless, IMHO.

Agree - and no AGS here either with my 2018 PP. They're only beneficial if the car is at a maintained speed for an extended period of time, not start/stop traffic patterns or short jaunts around the block and back.

But AGS is now a $3-Billion+ industry...

 

[RagmopInKona]

Agree - and no AGS here either with my 2018 PP. They're only beneficial if the car is at a maintained speed for an extended period of time, not start/stop traffic patterns or short jaunts around the block and back.

But AGS is now a $3-Billion+ industry...

Are these on all eb's or just the 310hp ones?

 

[WolfMxbee]

Are these on all eb's or just the 310hp ones?

It's only on non Performance pack ecoboost at and non high horsepower ecoboost I believe because the Ecoboost PP and HP have a bigger radiator

 

[RagmopInKona]

It's only on non Performance pack ecoboost at and non high horsepower ecoboost I believe because the Ecoboost PP and HP have a bigger radiator

I have a HPP eb so, less to break.

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