HOW???

[Memphis]

Yes, I seen that statement before...



The reason is, the CTS and I believe the CTS-V used steel front and rear suspension. The Camaro was based on the CTS, the suspension itself, IRS sub-frame, links and even the differential were all CTS based.



The ATS and especially the ATS-V used extensive aluminum in the front and rear suspension. In other words, the ATS-V went above and beyond... the SS is playing a bit of catch up when comparing it to the ATS-V. In fact, in order to keep cost down, not all of the SS's suspension systems were brought up to the ATS-V level. There is still some room for the SS to grow...



...it just really complicates any explaination as to how an SS got 140lbs lighter than an ATS-V Coupe...

I dunno man. Just gonna have to wait. It's speculation until then.



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[thePill]

Where was the 3,700 pound ATS-V. That was the estimate, but I think the lightest one we saw was 3,740 something. Anyways. Even if the Mustang and Camaro weighed the same, the Camaro would still have the advantage due to its A8 and power advantage.

Automobile had one at 3730, MT had a fully loaded car at 3754, C&D had another at 3762... MT's original First Drive car was said to be around 3700lbs. Every ATS-V tested was blistering fast, even a 12.1@122mph in one test... remember? The last time Randy drove one it ran a 1:40-1:41 at Laguna Seca :( that is roughly the speed of a base 2012 Boss 302 :(

The ATS-V showed up at 3822lbs or something... I think it was still higher than the reported 3809lbs.

Again, you are still staring at a 3809lbs ATS-V that Chevy needs to shave 130-140lbs from... that's reality... and we just cannot locate the areas in which this weight loss occurred.




Now they are confirmed to be using a 19 gallon CTS fuel tank...



They need to save weight somehow bud... we just can't find where they are saving it from for zero dollars.

 

[347CobraII]

Better is opinion yes. But faster is not. The Camaro is faster out of the box than the Mustang. I do not need a magazine to tell me a car that is lighter with a 25 hp and 45 torque advantage is faster......

You just keep proving my point LOL. Battle has yet to start but you keep claiming victory. Real world test has yet to start in hands of owners

 

[ZaneWayne]

Automobile had one at 3730, MT had a fully loaded car at 3754, C&D had another at 3762... MT's original First Drive car was said to be around 3700lbs. Every ATS-V tested was blistering fast, even a 12.1@122mph in one test... remember? The last time Randy drove one it ran a 1:40-1:41 at Laguna Seca :( that is roughly the speed of a base 2012 Boss 302 :(

The ATS-V showed up at 3822lbs or something... I think it was still higher than the reported 3809lbs.

Again, you are still staring at a 3809lbs ATS-V that Chevy needs to shave 130-140lbs from... that's reality... and we just cannot locate the areas in which this weight loss occurred.




Now they are confirmed to be using a 19 gallon CTS fuel tank...



They need to save weight somehow bud... we just can't find where they are saving it from for zero dollars.

I have no clue where the 122 trap came in. It's odd to say the least especially since it was only 12.1. The SS is not the ATS-V. They're are very different. And don't compare a track times from years apart lol. That's ridiculous.

 

[ZaneWayne]

You just keep proving my point LOL. Battle has yet to start but you keep claiming victory. Real world test has yet to start in hands of owners

No I'm only proving my point, dear. If you can't see how a lighter more powerful car will be faster, I don't know what to tell you lol.

 

[thePill]

I dunno man. Just gonna have to wait. It's speculation until then.



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Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!


That is the game they are playing. The same exact thing the ATS-V did to their fans. The objective here is to inform the potential buyers the correct curb weight BEFORE they buy.

Without any details from Chevy, outlining the platform and the changes, thePill cannot confirm and inform those involved...


Also, there could be chance these initial test are using 3670-3760lbs test cars. Vehicles that will not be available to the public. I need info from Chevy and I don't think they are releasing any of that BECAUSE, it simply does not exist.

If these incredible feats were accomplished, there would be a diagram of this to advertise this great weight loss.

 

[Memphis]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!





That is the game they are playing. The same exact thing the ATS-V did to their fans. The objective here is to inform the potential buyers the correct curb weight BEFORE they buy.



Without any details from Chevy, outlining the platform and the changes, thePill cannot confirm and inform those involved...

Lol there are to many discrepancies and unknowns. I still think you and whoever are trying to figure it out are leaving out some things.

I'm looking at it from a slightly different perspective. The camaro and mustan are close to the same size. Although they use different approaches they should be similar in weight. Even if the camaro is heavier (which is what I thought it would be) it won't be by much.

They have touted this weight loss as fact more so than they did with the ats v although they were all estimates at the time.

Zane is right, they have released official curb weights on the camaro.

There are more camaro buyers than ats v buyers. It will become a lot clearer a lot faster than the issue with the v.

Keep in mind the car is already shipped and will be arriving at dealers within the next week.




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[ZaneWayne]

Lol there are to many discrepancies and unknowns. I still think you and whoever are trying to figure it out are leaving out some things.

I'm looking at it from a slightly different perspective. The camaro and mustan are close to the same size. Although they use different approaches they should be similar in weight. Even if the camaro is heavier (which is what I thought it would be) it won't be by much.

They have touted this weight loss as fact more so than they did with the ats v although they were all estimates at the time.

Zane is right, they have released official curb weights on the camaro.

There are more camaro buyers than ats v buyers. It will become a lot clearer a lot faster than the issue with the v.

Keep in mind the car is already shipped and will be arriving at dealers within the next week.




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Cadillac didn't release curb weight up until recently. The curb weights for the Camaro have been out for a while now. Two totally different things.

 

[thePill]

Cadillac didn't release curb weight up until recently. The curb weights for the Camaro have been out for a while now. Two totally different things.

They posted 3700lbs on their website AND all the publications received a 3700-3762lbs ATS-V... and I have a couple of owners claiming they in fact have a 3700-ish pound ATS-V Coupes and they have some regular options equipped (no Track Pack)... Yet the weight HAS increased by 110lbs

Regardless, you are now dealing with an actual 3809lbs ATS-V. It makes a sub-3800lbs 1SS very, very difficult.

We went over the two cars almost piece by piece. With the 19 gallon tank, even matching the ATS-V Coupes 3809lbs gets difficult.

 

[ZaneWayne]

They posted 3700lbs on their website AND all the publications received a 3700-3762lbs ATS-V... and I have a couple of owners claiming they in fact have a 3700-ish pound ATS-V Coupes and they have some regular options equipped (no Track Pack)... Yet the weight HAS increased by 110lbs

Regardless, you are now dealing with an actual 3809lbs ATS-V. It makes a sub-3800lbs 1SS very, very difficult.

We went over the two cars almost piece by piece. With the 19 gallon tank, even matching the ATS-V Coupes 3809lbs gets difficult.

It was on their website as an estimate. Doesn't the track pack take some weight off? I'm not sure honestly. But they aren't lying. It weighs what their official curb weight says it does.

 

[thePill]

It was on their website as an estimate. Doesn't the track pack take some weight off? I'm not sure honestly. But they aren't lying. It weighs what their official curb weight says it does.

No, they aren't lying... the truth changed...

We are starting to see the truth change quite a bit. I believe the culprit to be Pre-Production test vehicles.

Can a 3672lbs, 405RWHP Camaro run 12.4@114mph in the 1/4 mile? Yeah, it most likely did...

What many 2016 Camaro buyers will receive is, a 3800+lbs, 380RWHP Camaro that runs 12.6-12.8@112-113mph.

Which is still great for $37,300-$38,500...


But you have a GTPP at $35,700 that weighs 3740-3760lbs, makes 370RWHP and runs 12.8@112 right now.... and also has the equipment to survive a Track Day...


...and it looks like a Sports Car...

 

[ZaneWayne]

No, they aren't lying... the truth changed...

We are starting to see the truth change quite a bit. I believe the culprit to be Pre-Production test vehicles.

Can a 3672lbs, 405RWHP Camaro run 12.4@114mph in the 1/4 mile? Yeah, it most likely did...

What many 2016 Camaro buyers will receive is, a 3800+lbs, 380RWHP Camaro that runs 12.6-12.8@112-113mph.

Which is still great for $37,300-$38,500...


But you have a GTPP at $35,700 that weighs 3740-3760lbs, makes 370RWHP and runs 12.8@112 right now.... and also has the equipment to survive a Track Day...


...and it looks like a Sports Car...

I think you are switching what you hope will happen and what's going to happen. We are going to see 3,680ish automatic SS's that run low 12s.

 

[thePill]

Lol there are to many discrepancies and unknowns. I still think you and whoever are trying to figure it out are leaving out some things.

I'm looking at it from a slightly different perspective. The camaro and mustan are close to the same size. Although they use different approaches they should be similar in weight. Even if the camaro is heavier (which is what I thought it would be) it won't be by much.

They have touted this weight loss as fact more so than they did with the ats v although they were all estimates at the time.

Zane is right, they have released official curb weights on the camaro.

There are more camaro buyers than ats v buyers. It will become a lot clearer a lot faster than the issue with the v.

Keep in mind the car is already shipped and will be arriving at dealers within the next week.




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The major thing we are missing now is the improvements the Camaro received over the ATS/ATS-V.

If Caddy wouldn't have updated the curb weight, this would have been much harder to prove. GM and Caddy did thePill a favor... but, it actually appears that Team Chevy hasn't acknowledged the 130-140lbs weight loss OR, the ATS-V's 110lbs weight gain.


If thePill were still a C5/C6 member, I would try to inquire how the larger Camaro platform managed to drop 130lbs without adding to the Camaro's MSRP. Even equipment deletion cost GM buyers money in the MSRP...


thePill is ever so close to figuring this out before the first buyer reviews theirs... I need Chevy to release that info if it exist. This would be a HUGE selling point and I imagine, if it's true, we will get detailed info on how it was done.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Well you better hurry up with your "investigating." Mine will be in Wednesday-Friday hopefully.

 

[Zodiac]

Well you better hurry up with your "investigating." Mine will be in Wednesday-Friday hopefully.

Damn that quick already? Awesome. Congrats.

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