How badly is Ford struggling?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Topics (non 6th Gen Mustang)' started by 1MEAN18, May 22, 2019.

  1. 1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    Say it ain't so...first thousands of white collar guys get the axe. Now we are hearing tens of thousands of blue collar guys are too? All this and Ford can't seem to make a profit building cars (in America at least) any more? Stock prices have been stagnant for a decade, is this the tell tale sign of our loving brand in serious jeopardy? Please, please, please don't go the route of Chrysler and let some European car maker buy you out. If that happens, I'm done buying new Ford cars. What do you all think of this stuff?
     
  2. Schwerin

    Schwerin Well-Known Member

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    Probably doesn't help that you cut all your cars then all the SUV's and trucks that are "coming" are still in the pipeline. All that is new is the Ranger but they cut 4 cars. And the Fusion and Fiesta were selling fine, they really just needed to cut, or cut down production of, the Focus and Taurus.

    The EcoSport is so bad even the Buick tiny SUV thing has been out selling it 2 to 1.
    I have NO idea who would buy a Edge ST. They are marking it like its all performance, but the reviews are VERY luke warm on it. They would have done better to actually give us the Ranger Raptor. From a money POV they should have also combined the BULLITT and PP2 into 1 package instead of marketing 2 separate cars. They did that with the new EcoBoost Mustang. You dont see a power boosted version AND a handling version. They are just levels of the same car. Not competing for market. Get the BULLITT/PPL2 combo cars reviewed, then sell the PPL2 handling and BULLITT power boosts as just packages through Ford Performance.

    It feels like they are trying to make vehicles there is no market for so thinking they are going to MAKE that market, just to find out its non existent because no one wants it.
     
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  3. DrGrabster

    DrGrabster UK Member

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    Wrong part of the forum.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. This is a general topic. And it seems everytime a thread gets moved, its effectively buried from the view of everyone. Hopefully mods agree and don't try to do a subtle form of censorship of this general topic. I also think it would make for a good poll question, which I also considered, but chose this form instead to hear what people think instead of asking people to vote on what I think they should think (in the form of specific poll questions).
     
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  5. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    As a former, and current ST owner (former Focus, current Fiesta) I'm shocked at what Ford has done to the ST brand. ST stands for sports technology. I get the technology part, but at what point do any of us (especially Mustang owners) consider the ST line a sports car? I never have. Its a fun car, my Fiesta is a blast to daily, but until the Edge ST arrived the ST also only had a manual transmission. Okay, now Edge ST comes along, not only destroys that short legacy, but, at the same time eliminating the production in America of the true ST's. It gives us less sports and more technology in the form of that hideous plastic knob replacing a shifter. So, I think you make a great point in your saying Ford doesn't understand its market, and is making a mistake by trying to make a market only to find out most of us just don't want what they are selling....especially, in the form of a bloated SUV with no manual transmission at a price that is nearly double what I paid for my new Fiesta ST. Its outrageous. And sorry Ford, but I'm a die hard blue bleeder who also thinks you no longer understand or even cater to your real market. Case in point...no more manual in the GT500, which has decades and decades of history of being pretty much a manual only offering. Now you can like it if you want. But I don't, if I ever bought a GT500, it certainly wouldn't be this new one, and I know I'm also not alone in saying that. And I'm not shy, I'll say it in public too, hopefully Ford is listening, but from what I've seen lately, I doubt it.
     
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  6. Ghost50

    Ghost50 Well-Known Member

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    Ford seems to think they can survive on the Mustang and F150.

    Cutting the car production was dumb. Like @Schwerin said they should’ve cut down production on certain models rather than axing them altogether.

    How much money are they pouring into electric vehicle development? Because if they don’t have an answer to that once the others come out with theirs then they’re dead in the water.

    One of my largest customers is a former engineer for Ford so I enjoy our discussions about what they’re like now vs when he worked for them. He said their current CEO is clueless.

    I love Ford. I’ve been loyal to them since I’ve been old enough to drive. Six Mustangs, two F-150’s and one Expedition. I hope they pull their heads out of their asses and right the ship.
     
  7. Ghost50

    Ghost50 Well-Known Member

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    Re: your point on the GT500. I agree.

    To not even offer a manual is stupid. If they wanted to heavily market the automatic then cool. But keep the manual option on the back burner for the loyalists who want one.

    Want me to spend $75k+ on that car, Ford? Give me a six speed. And while you’re at it at least let it be a damn Tremec and not the MT-82.

    I’ll never understand brands that are tone deaf when it comes to their customers issues. And Ford certainly seems like they’ve gone down that road.
     
  8. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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    GM axed 14700 workers so does that mean GM is in trouble. All the auto makers are doing is what the stock market wants then to do cut LABOR. Labor is where they can cut and get big savings in there costs Ford is just late to the party.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    Then explain Ford's stock price for the past decade. And while at it, please also make sense for us your remark of if "a stock market" wishes labor to be cut, then why is Ford also cutting white color jobs? Why has Ford gutted its car lineup? And why is Ford giving us things that we keep saying in public forums we don't really want, or are things that are absolutely destroying legacy names such as GT500 and now ST. I personally could care less about GM, although I think it sucks when anyone loses their job due to inept decision making from mid and upper level management...so why you brought that into the conversation makes zero sense to me. Maybe Camaro forum people are having a discussion about GM, but to me, its apples to oranges here, yeah sure they are both fruit but that's where the comparisons stop. But, I thank you for your reply none the less...but let's stay on topic here, and at least, if you wish to clean up your response, maybe you could take a few lines to address my question. How badly is Ford struggling? That is the topic at hand. Thanks!
     
  10. Coolmanfoo

    Coolmanfoo Well-Known Member

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    Op seems clearly heated. I don't say that to add fuel to the fire but just as an observation.

    Ford isn't struggling. I find people who don't understand economics or business put way too much into a companies stock price. The stock price really has nothing to do with how the company is preforming.

    Also gm and Ford cutting massive amounts of labor at the same time is extremely relevant. Cutting jobs is usually a good thing. As companies grow they usually over hire and have bloat. Then they slim down to be more nimble once operating procedures are established. Happens in almost every industry.

    So to answer your question, Ford currently makes the best selling vehicle in the world and the best selling sports car. Their cash flow is astronomical. I don't think there is a rival car company large enough to "buy out" Ford. Chrysler never had the volume, reputation or household name of Ford.

    All in all Ford will do just fine. What you're reading is a lot of hyperbole. They make money, they spend money, they invest money. The only thing that will kill Ford is if demand for their products drop and that's just not happening.

    Also while most of us are Ford loving guys you need to understand most companies won't listen to their true followers. Let me tell you, the gt500 is going to sell out instantly. The dealer markup will be painful and people will pay for it because the demand is there.

    Tldr: a lot of hyperbole and panic in the news/media, Ford is massive and have strong demand for their products. Oh and your opinion of their product hardly matters. Sad but true.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    Heated? LOL. Since when is asking timely and relevant questions about a brand I've loved for decades now heated? You can discount my questions or my opinions I used to prove my point, but I detect you'd prefer your own preferences over mine or anyone else's with what you've managed to say, which online these days is to be expected. I hope GT500's "sell out instantly" as you claim to think...and I hope all those folks with more money than brains willing to pay huge mark up's love the car too, for the average joe 6 pack, like myself, we don't just do things like that, especially when we also feel that our brand seems happy to move forward by literally destroying decades of its own legacy. Sorry but in 20 years, the standard for what cars people are gonna still want the most will likely be either a 1st gen classic (with a stick) or the '13-'14 (with a stick). Ford can keep that plastic knob, I'd say they could put it somewhere too, but that would then make me actually sound heated. Again. LOL.
     
  12. Coolmanfoo

    Coolmanfoo Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry I should have explained. I just thought your response to recovert was a little intense given his fairly good point. That's all!
     
  13. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    He didn't answer a single part of my original question...so I'm sorry if you think he did "given his fairly good point" which I can't agree too, my possible annoyance in my response was because of that fact. I think I make fairly good detailed points. Points which, I dare to say a large majority of us die hard Ford owners (who also buy new cars, I've bought 3 in the past 2 years in fact) think are relevant. If you want a bit more, I was (stress was) a person who had saved up and followed the GT500 hype from the beginning. I decided last Spring I just couldn't wait, been without a Stang for nearly 2 years up to that point, and fell in love with the '18 refresh, the Gen 3 changes to the coyote, and really wanted the new A10. Only after buying it, and finding out specs of the new GT500 and the months of horrible speculation which in my opinion has been botched all along by Ford marketing (we still to this day don't know real prices and even real hp numbers) when I heard the rumor it would not come in a stick. No issue with the DCT, I'm a drag racer at heart, but no stick offering at all? And no word from Ford exec's as to why they think its a good thing to literally end 50+ years of legacy with one new car model just because they wanna bring back an iconic name and vehicle designation? I see it was a millennial who gave it the same plastic knob you'd find in an Edge. He actually seemed proud when asked about that in some YouTuber videos, all of which I won't point out because dropping those names doesn't matter here and would be a distraction. Personally, I'm so Glad I couldn't wait now, glad I fell in love with the '18 refresh, I'm spared holding onto a dream of buying a car that is likely gonna be 6 figures that a lot of us older guys, who give a darn about our brands history and legacy gets to see be broken. Everyone has a valid point, if they bother to respond to the actual question I posed. I don't mind what you point is, its your point of view and I think this is a discussion well worth having...but if you re-read my OP, I used the GT500 as one of many examples to state my feelings about my worry as to the perception, with all the layoff's of both white and blue collar workers, stock prices stagnant for a decade, the ending of the ST legacy, and in general the ending of what I see as successful lines of cars that will now never be made in America again. I'd love it if you actually took as much time to weigh in on that more, that's what I was hoping by asking the question in public.
     
  14. w3rkn

    w3rkn Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about..?
    Ford is streamlining it workforce and it's employee workforce is getting smaller and smaller each year. This is planned and expected.
     
  15. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    The people inside the company would disagree that everything is fine.
     
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  16. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    and now tens of thousands of these blue collar die hards are also getting to worry about their jobs. and people in this thread are already wondering why I'm worried about my loving brand? if I saw better quality, and less marketing gimmickry, better interior materials, body panels actually lining up properly and management that seems for a second they either know when the average customer wants, or are willing to listen to the legitimate complaints of a blue collar guy's like myself (which they don't seem to care about at all) then I'll worry less. for now, it looks pretty bad and that's just my opinion.
     
  17. EcoVert

    EcoVert Well-Known Member

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    So OP has started this threat in hopes everyone would jump on his bandwagon and crucify Ford for cutting jobs like GM has sorry not going to do it.
     
  18. OP
    OP
    1MEAN18

    1MEAN18 Well-Known Member

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    LOL on your mind reading skills too. I'm still waiting for you to say something actually intelligent. If you care to drop the hyperbole (and spell check your stuff too) and actually address my original points instead of just being argumentative for the sake of it, then I'll change my tone back to you. I await your intelligence, come on man, you must have something thoughtful to actually say tonight right?
     
  19. Coolmanfoo

    Coolmanfoo Well-Known Member

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    Well okay now you're making valid points and opinions. In your original post it seemed you were using hot new topics as indicators that Ford's financial health may be declining. However it sounds more like you're upset with the direction Ford is going. They are definitely trading legacy and tradition for dollars. Most companies do at some point.

    I will agree I highly dislike the current management and their ideas for the brand. When I watched the faster horse documentary I was majorly impressed with the project leaders and their mentality. A lot has changed since then.

    So just to clarify are you concerned about Ford going belly up or just that they are morphing into a brand you don't recognize and support?
     
  20. Bear376

    Bear376 Well-Known Member

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    Ford is like all lasting companies. They are changing with the demands of the future. Their cutting back on sedans is only in North America, and is not reversible. The sedans and coupes are still being made overseas. An increase of production and boat ride to the States. and it is on the way to be solved. The real problem is that Trump's trade battles is a risky, but necessary struggle. How it sorts out, can change everyone's future plans. With the move to alternate energy sources and autonomous drivers also adds confusion.
     
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