Cory S
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It’s a gamble at big power levels no matter what.
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Semp1
Well-Known Member
What primarily breaks half shafts is dead hooking and essentially wheel hop while hooking. No ones hooking at all with power levels at the range I’m speaking about on the street with any tire. Streets aren’t prepped. So yes there’s a gamble there but it’s about as small as an OPG going on a gen3. With that being said I did do my OPG/CS. So I don’t gamble but I also can admit when it’s unnecessary.
Boosted21
Well-Known Member
I have a Steeda stop the hop ultimate kit. It stops almost all wheel hop. I will eventually do half shafts but not for a while. Supercharging next week
Semp1
Well-Known Member
I’ve done it all since this post including the steeda stop the hop kit. I have the ford performance half shafts by g force. I stand by what I said. If you're just on the street pretty unnecessary. But whatever money well spent If you ever need it. It Is what it is.
Angrey
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1) The weakest part of the drivetrain is what fails. Think of it like a series of connected wires, slap a high current on the circuit and the smallest wire burns/melts.
In the old days, you'd want that to be the clutch. Clutches were cheap(er) and the ensuing carnage was largely contained within that item (no collateral damage like a driveshaft beating the undercarriage to death).
If you're going to be undersized in any part of the drivetrain for the level of grip and torque, you should pick which component you want to fail.
2). What kills drivetrain parts is shock loading. Spikes in force if you will. This comes largely from 2 aspects, grip and how hard you can release pent up momentum in the power train.
A car that makes a zillion hp/tq but has roller skates won't ever break anything because the wheels will simply spin before the load spike ever gets high enough to exceed any limits.
Secondly, manual transmissions where you can present a sudden jerky application of torque are much harder on the drivetrain than fluid torque converter autos. An A10 or a 6R80 has a natural "dampener" in the torque converter which serves to soften the sudden torque changes on the input shaft. This particular affect with the manual also depends on how "grabby" and what capacity the clutch has, disc material, etc. Contrary to popular myth, sprung hubs don't do shit to dampen engagement, they're only there to soak up minor variations once the clutch is engaged to reduce NVH. A clutch that's capable of holding 2k ft-lbs of torque is typically going to bite much harder than one rated for 500 ft-lbs simply because the more you ask of it, the more the clutch will have to slip slightly to full grab.
3) So let's describe the WORST condition to illustrate. The worst condition you could have is a car that's static loaded (3 of your largest friends in it adding an additional 800 lbs of weight) on very VERY sticky tires on a very prepped strip where you're redline dumping the clutch on your high tq motor with a very grabby clutch.
Consider for a moment the torque multiplication that's happening in your drive train. If the first gear is say 3.25:1 and the final ratio is 3.73:1, that means the TOTAL torque multiplication in 1st gear is over 12x. That means if the motor is making 500 ft-lb of torque, the rear axles are seeing 6,000 ft-lb of torque.
A car with even moderate torque can be brutal on drivetrain components with a sticky tire and clutch and redline dumps.
A car with massive torque but thin sidewall tires can survive for a long time on stock axles simply because the tires generally rollover long before something gets hurt. And the other factors (auto with tq converter) etc play a part somewhere in between.
Lastly, others have addressed that yes, wheel hop can be murderous on axles and other drive train components because it's a very herky-jerky, spike loading of the drivetrain in rapid succession. Under slow motion you can see the wheel grip and the suspension load, then lose grip and rapidly unload, then repeat in rapid succession. These rapid grip-release events are literally like a jack hammer or an air hammer to your drivetrain components.
So, do you need upgraded axles? Do you have decent side wall tires that can fully load before breaking static friction? (Traditionally racers will tell you that radials are harder on axles on a sticky track than slicks). Do you have a manual? Do you have a badass high capacity clutch. If one or more of those things is yes, then you're probably a prime candidate to eventually break the stockers.
The good news is, unlike the old days, most of the time when an axle brakes, it's not that much collateral damage. It's generally at launch and unless you just keep your foot in it and run into something, you shut it down, you trailer it home and swap them out with nothing else being ravaged. So you can just keep banging on the stockers until one breaks. If it does, you're only out the cost of the wrecker/flatbed, as the stock axles are worthless (no resale) and you were going to have to buy new ones in either scenario (do it now or wait until a stocker breaks).
In the old days, you'd want that to be the clutch. Clutches were cheap(er) and the ensuing carnage was largely contained within that item (no collateral damage like a driveshaft beating the undercarriage to death).
If you're going to be undersized in any part of the drivetrain for the level of grip and torque, you should pick which component you want to fail.
2). What kills drivetrain parts is shock loading. Spikes in force if you will. This comes largely from 2 aspects, grip and how hard you can release pent up momentum in the power train.
A car that makes a zillion hp/tq but has roller skates won't ever break anything because the wheels will simply spin before the load spike ever gets high enough to exceed any limits.
Secondly, manual transmissions where you can present a sudden jerky application of torque are much harder on the drivetrain than fluid torque converter autos. An A10 or a 6R80 has a natural "dampener" in the torque converter which serves to soften the sudden torque changes on the input shaft. This particular affect with the manual also depends on how "grabby" and what capacity the clutch has, disc material, etc. Contrary to popular myth, sprung hubs don't do shit to dampen engagement, they're only there to soak up minor variations once the clutch is engaged to reduce NVH. A clutch that's capable of holding 2k ft-lbs of torque is typically going to bite much harder than one rated for 500 ft-lbs simply because the more you ask of it, the more the clutch will have to slip slightly to full grab.
3) So let's describe the WORST condition to illustrate. The worst condition you could have is a car that's static loaded (3 of your largest friends in it adding an additional 800 lbs of weight) on very VERY sticky tires on a very prepped strip where you're redline dumping the clutch on your high tq motor with a very grabby clutch.
Consider for a moment the torque multiplication that's happening in your drive train. If the first gear is say 3.25:1 and the final ratio is 3.73:1, that means the TOTAL torque multiplication in 1st gear is over 12x. That means if the motor is making 500 ft-lb of torque, the rear axles are seeing 6,000 ft-lb of torque.
A car with even moderate torque can be brutal on drivetrain components with a sticky tire and clutch and redline dumps.
A car with massive torque but thin sidewall tires can survive for a long time on stock axles simply because the tires generally rollover long before something gets hurt. And the other factors (auto with tq converter) etc play a part somewhere in between.
Lastly, others have addressed that yes, wheel hop can be murderous on axles and other drive train components because it's a very herky-jerky, spike loading of the drivetrain in rapid succession. Under slow motion you can see the wheel grip and the suspension load, then lose grip and rapidly unload, then repeat in rapid succession. These rapid grip-release events are literally like a jack hammer or an air hammer to your drivetrain components.
So, do you need upgraded axles? Do you have decent side wall tires that can fully load before breaking static friction? (Traditionally racers will tell you that radials are harder on axles on a sticky track than slicks). Do you have a manual? Do you have a badass high capacity clutch. If one or more of those things is yes, then you're probably a prime candidate to eventually break the stockers.
The good news is, unlike the old days, most of the time when an axle brakes, it's not that much collateral damage. It's generally at launch and unless you just keep your foot in it and run into something, you shut it down, you trailer it home and swap them out with nothing else being ravaged. So you can just keep banging on the stockers until one breaks. If it does, you're only out the cost of the wrecker/flatbed, as the stock axles are worthless (no resale) and you were going to have to buy new ones in either scenario (do it now or wait until a stocker breaks).
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Unas2k5
Well-Known Member
Mine is Procharged. Stock half shafts and drive shaft. Ive never taken it to the track I stay on the street mostly rolls no point in even trying to get it to hook from a dig. I did want to upgrade the driveshaft but I heard that it causes vibrations...IDK if I wanna deal with that.
jymcat1
Member
How did you make out? I'm probably going with the Roush stage 2 on an '18 PP2. Already have the BMR Lockout Kit (which totally eliminated wheel hop... idk how anyone can drive without this) and stiff Pedders coilovers + 325's in back. Thought it was mandatory to get half-shafts, but never going to the drag strip and would rather save the $ for clutch/tires. Appreciate the insight!
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