GT350 vs. Z/28

[w3rkn]

Yeah starting price of a GT350 is $49,995 with GG and starting price of a 1LE is $38,000 so I don't get your statement of "If you cannot afford a 350 how can you afford a 1LE"

The Camaro does have blind spots but so do a lot of sports cars. The 370Z is pretty terrible for example.

If you do not get it, the joke is on you. Who is going to pay for a 1Le when you can get a better car, for less? (dERP)

Secondly, we are not talking about the Nissan, but the Camaro. GM engineers are still worried about movie ops, instead of making a car for those who like to drive. They play a numbers game, not a drivers game. They blatantly ignored their demographic, for kewl looks, not functionality.


Seeing out of a car is the number one thing when driving it. Certainly doesn't matter sitting there, or in movie promos, or sitting on the lots.

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[BaylorCorvette]

If you do not get it, the joke is on you. Who is going to pay for a 1Le when you can get a better car, for less? (dERP)

The GT350 is a way better car than the 1LE, no question. But it also cost over TEN THOUSAND dollars more, that is a large margin and honestly I don't know on a percentage basis how many people will truely be cross shopping the two. Almost all cases will be GT PP vs 1LE, GT350 vs ZL1 and/or Z/28.

Secondly, we are not talking about the Nissan, but the Camaro. GM engineers are still worried about movie ops, instead of making a car for those who like to drive. They play a numbers game, not a drivers game. They blatantly ignored their demographic, for kewl looks, not functionality.

Seeing out of a car is the number one thing when driving it. Certainly doesn't matter sitting there, or in movie promos, or sitting on the lots.

Visibility is important, yes. However given the Camaro sales figures it clearly isn't as big of an issue as YOU think it is. Furthermore from a performance stand point, visibility is even less of an issue. I've been tracking the 5th gen for a couple years now, in addition to time in a C7, C6, M3, BRZ, 5.0, Mini Cooper and Fiat 500. The Camaro's "visibility problem" is not an issue while tracking it, certainly not significantly more than the C7.

Of the above vehicles the only real visibility problem with the 5th gen over the others is the large C Pillar, which can be addressed by mirror adjustment. The Corvette has a long hood line and rear window visibility in the C7 isn't that great either. Again, if it was such a big problem people wouldn't be buying the car however that clearly isn't the case.

 

[Cashcow]

Seeing out of a car is the number one thing when driving it. Certainly doesn't matter sitting there, or in movie promos, or sitting on the lots.

I don't have any problem seeing out of my Camaro. Maybe at first for a couple of days but then I got used to it. It isn't as open as my Mustang but it certainly isn't a hindrance like most make it out to be; especially with the backup camera's wide viewing angle.

 

[MrBillton]

Seeing out of Camaro seems to be difficult for smaller people. Folks over 6ft are seemingly less noticing of the visibility issues.

 

[thePill]

Seeing out of Camaro seems to be difficult for smaller people. Folks over 6ft are seemingly less noticing of the visibility issues.

The driver's side A pillar on entry and exit. It was the only thing about the visibility I absolutely hated...

 

[Nasty99z28]

The driver's side A pillar on entry and exit. It was the only thing about the visibility I absolutely hated...

Well from what they said they made it much smaller on the 6th gen. One of the many ways they saved hundreds of pounds......:lol:

 

[w3rkn]

The GT350 is a way better car than the 1LE, no question. But it also cost over TEN THOUSAND dollars more, that is a large margin and honestly I don't know on a percentage basis how many people will truely be cross shopping the two. Almost all cases will be GT PP vs 1LE, GT350 vs ZL1 and/or Z/28.



Visibility is important, yes. However given the Camaro sales figures it clearly isn't as big of an issue as YOU think it is. Furthermore from a performance stand point, visibility is even less of an issue. I've been tracking the 5th gen for a couple years now, in addition to time in a C7, C6, M3, BRZ, 5.0, Mini Cooper and Fiat 500. The Camaro's "visibility problem" is not an issue while tracking it, certainly not significantly more than the C7.

Of the above vehicles the only real visibility problem with the 5th gen over the others is the large C Pillar, which can be addressed by mirror adjustment. The Corvette has a long hood line and rear window visibility in the C7 isn't that great either. Again, if it was such a big problem people wouldn't be buying the car however that clearly isn't the case.

Not sure if you are getting it...

The price of the Camaro has gone up, making ANY mustang a better choice. I threw the GT350 to illustrate that it is ONLY 10k more.



I do not care about the sales figures of the Camaro, I care about seeing out of my cars. I am not the only person who cares and have heard others say the exact same thing.

Secondly, people do not track their cars 100% of the time, and most will not. Backing up and/or looking out the rear is a hourly ~ per minute thing while driving. Great the Chevy built a car for 6' people. Others just were not on Chevy's demographic and pushed aside while being engineered.


I drive a BMW because it is upright and visibility is exceptional. The Camaro is subpar. It has zero canopy. Nothing you say will change the dimensions of the windows, so stop trying.

 

[BaylorCorvette]

Not sure if you are getting it...

The price of the Camaro has gone up, making ANY mustang a better choice. I threw the GT350 to illustrate that it is ONLY 10k more.



I do not care about the sales figures of the Camaro, I care about seeing out of my cars. I am not the only person who cares and have heard others say the exact same thing.

Secondly, people do not track their cars 100% of the time, and most will not. Backing up and/or looking out the rear is a hourly ~ per minute thing while driving. Great the Chevy built a car for 6' people. Others just were not on Chevy's demographic and pushed aside while being engineered.


I drive a BMW because it is upright and visibility is exceptional. The Camaro is subpar. It has zero canopy. Nothing you say will change the dimensions of the windows, so stop trying.

The Camaros have back up sensors and/or back up cameras. Prior to my '13 I had an early production '10 which meant it didn't have either of those yet I still had zero issues.

I bring up sales figures because you brought up how the number one thing that is important is driver visibility. So by that logic something that scores very poorly wouldn't be receptive to the general public. Yet it is. Seems like there is a fundamental flaw in your logic. Just because you've got a huge issue doesn't mean everyone does.

The Mustang has better overall visibility than the Camaro and it wasn't until MY 2015 that the Mustangs started outselling the 5th gen.

Oh and please tell me more about how Camaros and BMWs are cross shopped.

 

[w3rkn]

The Camaros have back up sensors and/or back up cameras. Prior to my '13 I had an early production '10 which meant it didn't have either of those yet I still had zero issues.

I bring up sales figures because you brought up how the number one thing that is important is driver visibility. So by that logic something that scores very poorly wouldn't be receptive to the general public. Yet it is. Seems like there is a fundamental flaw in your logic. Just because you've got a huge issue doesn't mean everyone does.

The Mustang has better overall visibility than the Camaro and it wasn't until MY 2015 that the Mustangs started outselling the 5th gen.

Oh and please tell me more about how Camaros and BMWs are cross shopped.

Not sure why you think people only use their back window while backing up. While driving on the freeway, I use my back window as much as my front...

And again, I am not the only one taking issue here. It was recognized by Chevy's own engineers.


I do not know too many people that will cross shop a Chevy Camaro and a BMW, but I do know a whole hell of a lot of them will cross shop a BMW with a S550 Mustang... and are!

 

[thePill]

Low 1:30's reported by 3rd Parties at Laguna Seca...

You guys had this info before anyone else...

 

[traxiii]

Anything faster than 1:35 is pretty darn fast as the Nissan GT-R Nismo went 1:35.51, the Fastest Street Legal Vette time I could find ran a 1:33.70 and a SRT Viper TA ran a 133.62. Pretty fast company.

 

[thePill]

Anything faster than 1:35 is pretty darn fast as the Nissan GT-R Nismo went 1:35.51, the Fastest Street Legal Vette time I could find ran a 1:33.70 and a SRT Viper TA ran a 133.62. Pretty fast company.

The "Low 1:30's" is from Ford, it's as close to a lap time as I think they will say. They are pretty much laying it on the media and owners to produce lap times.

The fastest time was accomplished by a factory driver, over nearly 3 times more Laguna time than the Boss 302 before production. It was in development for almost 3 full years and has more total track time than the GT500.

Sources at the track put it around 1:33 during testing, I'm betting they got a little more.

The media isn't going to duplicate those times, it's a good reason to not advertise them too.

I'm betting Randy can match the old Z06...

 

[Gudz2015]

Hahaha right

 

[9secondko]

The "Low 1:30's" is from Ford, it's as close to a lap time as I think they will say. They are pretty much laying it on the media and owners to produce lap times.

The fastest time was accomplished by a factory driver, over nearly 3 times more Laguna time than the Boss 302 before production. It was in development for almost 3 full years and has more total track time than the GT500.

Sources at the track put it around 1:33 during testing, I'm betting they got a little more.

The media isn't going to duplicate those times, it's a good reason to not advertise them too.

I'm betting Randy can match the old Z06...

Don't see why not.

Everything about the 350 is superior except weight.

 

[thePill]

It appears as if Randy is not driving for Motor Trend at this time. Randy is actually testing with Ford Performance...

Is the great Randy Pobst part of Team Ford now? Has he left Volvo finally???

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