GT350 vs. Z/28

[Norm Peterson]

Blame vbulletin. The way it was explained to me was that vbulletin getes a little stupid about page count when posts are deleted. The same thing happens over on Pill's favorite Camaro forum.


Page 52??? I'm only on page 31 . . . and there are still links to 3 pages claimed that are roads to nowhere new.


Norm

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[JoeDogInKC]

Blame vbulletin. The way it was explained to me was that vbulletin getes a little stupid about page count when posts are deleted. The same thing happens over on Pill's favorite Camaro forum.


Page 52??? I'm only on page 31


Norm

And I'm on page 24.

Page numbers are going to vary depending on how many posts per page you have set in the control panel. I have mine maxed out at 40, I think.

 

[Backorder]

And I'm on page 24.



Page numbers are going to vary depending on how many posts per page you have set in the control panel. I have mine maxed out at 40, I think.

Even worse on tapatalk because it starts me on page 36 which doesn't exist and I have to hit the back button 4 times every time I open this thread before a see the new posts. On top of that, sometimes I have to refresh the page still to see anything new. Annoying, but worth it as I'm an addict :-D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Norm Peterson]

We're so far off topic anyway . . . what the hell is this Tapatalk I keep seeing and how is knowing it relevant to post topics generally???



Sorry, Pill. Carry on.


Norm

 

[thePill]

Its open topic during down time Norm...



...carry on...

 

[oyitsagreen]

We're so far off topic anyway . . . what the hell is this Tapatalk I keep seeing and how is knowing it relevant to post topics generally???



Sorry, Pill. Carry on.


Norm

its an app that is compatible with most forums online. You can see all the threads and discussions in a nice formatted way instead of fiddling with the phones browser.

 

[thePill]

The CTSCC GS race started about 30 minutes ago. It is NOT in TV until August 5-ish.

Right now, Multimatic/Miller are on a hot streak and could challenge for the champioship before the season is over.

The Boss is doing well in SCCA GTS with driver Dean Martin, currently in 2nd overall (1st is the mighty KIA). The z28 also competes in this class but, it is a composite bodied 5th Gen.

I will look into Multimatics current spot and get back with you.I thought it was 5th.

 

[JoeDogInKC]

http://www.imsa.com/camera/sportscar-challenge/live-broadcast

 

[thePill]

Thanks Joe!

The Stevenson z28 (Bell driven) was on the pole again (lol). Yeah, that's gonna keep happening with 100 extra horsepower. I think its time to lift the rest of the fields restrictions. Although, I believe IMSA is giving Chevy a sympathy championship. The Camaro is the only competitor that has not won a championship. Hopefully, this is the last year for fabricated an modified vehicles in a factory class. I would also like to see the KIA and z28/ZL1 thrown out of GTS if they cannot comply.

anyway, Multimatic is in 7th and 32 points separate them and 1st with 5 races left.

 

[thePill]

Some more 6th Gen Camaro speculation:

If 6th Gen size and weight is a sensitive issue, STOP READING HERE...





Now that they're gone, I might be on to something here.

First, it's still a big ? as to what Alpha the Camaro will use. Either the 109.x ATS platform OR, the 114.8 CTS. Well, I'm here to tell ya', it won't be either one.

What I didn't figure was the CTS-V Coupe and, if GM would make a separate platform for it.... they did...

What I discovered is, the '15/'16 CTS-V Coupe rides on a shortened 113.4 inch wheelbase. It is a 2 door so, that will help us with weight we can't estimate. So, what I'm saying is, the 2017 Camaro will ride on the special CTS-V Coupe platform and not the ATS or CTS. The ATS is out of the question, it seems that the ATS is not ready for a V8 nor a SC'd V8. Only the larger CTS is V8 ready. Both mass and weight of a V8 present packaging problems for a base ATS Alpha. I feel major reinforcement would be needed to support the weight. I also feel that a V8 engine could be too long for the ATS. There might not be enough room for the extra block length between the towers and firewall. As I stated months ago, judging solely on pictures mind you, that an ATS's structure us just too limp for big performance.

I'm actually comfortable with a V based Camaro. It isn't 115 inches that's for sure.

One more disclaimer before I talk about weight:

If curb weight is a personal, sensitive issue, please stop reading here...




I personally placed a 4050lbs curb weight on the future CTS-V Coupe. I based that from the TT V6's weight of 3976lbs. Remember, that's a 4 door too. The LT1 weighs 465lbs (fat pushrod indeed) so, the powertrains should be close, I'll bet the LT1/Tremec will be slightly heavier (465+200 vs. 420+220). Say about 25lbs.

With me so far???

What does GM estimate the 2015 CTS-V Coupe to weigh? http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Cadillac_CTS/2015/specs/CTS-CTS-V-Coupe-367614/

That's right... 4217lbs ;)

I thought "that's not that much lighter than the '14 yo!!". Although, the CTS-V was actually closer to 4300lbs. Its 100lbs... Still not bad, I'm betting they loaded it with features.

Now, what's that mean for a 113.4 inch wheelbased 6th Gen Camaro? Well, first, this would be the ZL1 were talking about. The old ZL1 weighed 4120lbs, wouldn't surprise me if it couldn't beat that weight. Keep in mind now, there is only 2 doors now. Everything else would be similar in weight. That would put a 2015 CTS-V Coupe with a LT1 around 4000lbs OR, close to the sedans 3976lbs I suggested days ago. Don't forget our convertible and high performance structural reinforcement, larger wheels, tires, brakes, coolers and beefier suspension. I feel most of the safety features and new standard equipment will be shared between the two so, we can almost count that out. As some of you pointed out earlier, the CTS may have more feature/option weight than a Camaro. At this point though, there isn't much else the Caddy could equip that the Camaro wouldn't.

So, what I think is:

113.4 inch wheelbase (close to the Impala)
188 inches overall
3995lbs (a 75lbs gain over the '14 or, 175lbs over the last advertised 3820lbs)

What do you all think? I was unaware that the Alpha had 3 options. 109.3 Short, 114.8 Long and 113.4 Sport. There is even a possibility that there is a 4th Alpha Platform in the Camaro. It would make more sense to have a short and long WB Alpha sedan platform AND, a short and long Alpha Coupe. Is there a possibility of a convertible CTS-V? That would eliminate some of the unknown convertible reinforcement weight.

As always Mustang fans, you heard it here first!!!

EDIT: Uggg... Appearently there is no CTS-V Coupe in 2016. Arrrggg!!!! That destroys my theory of a 113.4 inch WB Camaro :(


EDIT #2: Double Ugggg... There is also no signs of V8 usage in the CTS-V. What the hell are they gonna do? The Camaro Alpha will gain weight in the firewall/torque box area. The runners, rockers and A pillars will take on weight as well.

So neither of these two platforms were designed for V8's? I smell compromise... The last Pony car to fit a V8 into a I4/V6 platform was the Mustang II.


(fin)

 

[thePill]

Oh, what a surprise... The 500hp z28 won at Indy after winning the pole, for the second race. Two poles, two wins... in a class with sub 400hp output competition.

Enjoy your free championship Team Camaro. Too bad you couldn't engineer a car that could not only comply with the rules, but be competitive without a huge displacement and horsepower advantage.

Why I don't watch this year. A KIA and a Pratt/Miller Camaro in a factory class. Lame...

 

[Big reg]

CTS-V will be using a version of the LT4, it has always been v8 based. I owned one a few years ago. Where are you pulling this shit from? At least it sounds good if your audience is brand biased.

 

[ChefBorOzzy]

You have no idea what you're talking about, Pill.. You do understand that the 15 is same as 14 right? Why would it weigh less?

No point reading your predictions as they're filled with fanboyism.

 

[thePill]

Yes, a CTSV will probably use a SC 6.2, its pretty much their only option. This scares me as it should with any Camaro fan. Not because of the new pushrod engine but, this indicates a very large probability that the 6th Gen will use a version of the long wheelbase Alpha... which means, a Turbo 4 will weigh in the 3600-3700lbs range. That's not a healthy start... In fact, its putting the two base cars 5th and 6th Gen at the same weight. That's not counting all the new standard equipment they need to take on.

I am hoping there is a 3rd version of the Alpha, a mid wheelbase that will underpin the CTS-V. Either way, its a bad deal using a sedan for the basis of a sports coupe.

Perhaps many are not grasping the implications here. The issue with the 5th Gen was primarily weight, weight gained by using a large (113.5 inch CTSV) platform. Now, why oh why would you select another (larger) sedan platform as a replacement? Money I understand but, you can't be seriously considering the same exact move that cause the weight gain to begin with. When they made the decision 5 years ago, I'm sure Ford and Chevy could have taken 200lbs out with their new chassis's. In 2014 though, standard features and safety are coming, as we seen, the Mustang and Corvette fell victim to this very circumstance.

I make it perfectly clear, this is all speculation and my perticular speculation usually holds Chevy to the flame. There are reasons I single them out. I will list a few below...

The ZL1 letdown, god, what a rip off. They simulated their test against the GT500. After all that, it appears the GT500 can not only split the wins, it can run just as fast at Nurburgring. That's a huge disgrace...

The 1LE, made for racing and beat a Boss in magazine test. Although, Chevy made one attempt to sanction this piece of crap in SCCA. Mind you, in the T2 class with a factory driver. That 1LE was destroyed by 7 (seven) 2011-2012 GT's. This makes anyone that speaks highly of said offering very, very uninformed.

The z28, LOL!!! Specifically designed to take your money at $80,000. Any "racer" that has one of these in storage right now never considered actual racing. They never really considered anything did they? I made attempts to warn potential buyers... But, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about...

(cont.)

 

[ChefBorOzzy]

Care to explain what additional features will be added to the 2SS which weighs in at 3935 now that will make it a bigger porker? Automatic climate control perhaps?

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