GT350 vs. Z/28

[Grimace427]

Oh that's right, it has the Tremec, same as the GT500 and Camaro. Wow, all that and that's what you come up with?

The Tremec in the Boss 302R is their race model with upgraded internals, no speedo provision, and most importantly a solid mounted shifter. The Tremec T6060 in the GT500 and Camaro has street internals and a remote mounted shifter.

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[FATTBoss]

Okay fine, it has a better than stock trans. You win.

Still makes one wonder why there is no mention in the rules of auditing the power of the Z/28R.

 

[Grimace427]

Okay fine, it has a better than stock trans. You win.

Still makes one wonder why there is no mention in the rules of auditing the power of the Z/28R.

I'm not on anyone's side here, just clarifying that one thing.

 

[Stuntman]

The Tremec in the Boss 302R is their race model with upgraded internals, no speedo provision, and most importantly a solid mounted shifter. The Tremec T6060 in the GT500 and Camaro has street internals and a remote mounted shifter.

Non oem transmission, drive shaft, wing, panhard bar...

 

[Grimace427]

Non oem transmission, drive shaft, wing, panhard bar...

?

 

[FATTBoss]

I knew about the drive shaft and panhard, but that is how Ford builds for competition and ANYONE can buy it and go racing. The Z/28R is purpose built by Riley and it seems only two teams are allowed to have it.

In addition, all of what is allowed is not spelled out in the rules package on the Z. Aside from the STi which no longer competes, no other car but the GS.R Camaro was allowed so many weight reduction components and suspension pieces. The fact that the GS.R was specifically listed as NO engine mods and stock air intake indicates that IMSA is trying to hold the cars to about 400-maybe 425HP. The rest of the field produces similar numbers in stock trim. The Nissan is allowed several components to increase power to near the same level. Then to turn around and allow a 505HP 427cid engine into the field with essentially a 75mm throttle body instead of it's normal 90 seems ludicrous. The car is only 50 lbs heavier than the Mustang, has the same rear gear and probably produces 100ft/lbs more torque. Does that really sound fair in a class that says it stresses "parity"?

 

[FATTBoss]

I know the guys from Pheonix Racing,and Subaru pulled support for the program after Daytona last year so they switched to the Boss 302R for the remainder of 2013, and have remained in the Boss for '14. If there is a team or two running the car, it is without factory support. Same goes for the Aston, Multimatic went back to the Boss because they were tapped for the S550 platform development. Automatic Racing is still fielding an all Aston Martin team in '14 according to the IMSA site, but it has little factory backing.

 

[FATTBoss]

Thanks for helping me pass the time at work today guys! Appreciate it!

 

[thePill]

The Z/28.R is as much a race car as the Mustang's GT.R in Tudor GT. It's as if they need an entire tier above the competition to be competitive. It is also like that in SCCA T1 where they use a Riley Camaro GT.R LOL!! I mean ZL1) against a Boss 302S.

It is all evidence that the Camaro DOES NOT BELONG IN RACING... I have been saying these for some years now, even more on the Assault Thread. It's poop, has always been and with their decision making, probably always will be.

If you need a 500hp, 7 liter, race spec'd and weight reduced Camaro to manage a 400hp, 5 liter Turn key, your doing it wrong... This isn't the only class the Camaro is f@ckin up...

See: SCCA GTS
Tudor GT
SCCA T1

 

[thePill]

LOL!! Why is the Z/28 on skateboard wheels? Remove those ugly ass fender extensions. All big like a Ford Taurus. It's ugly... Id rather put wheels on a bowel movement. I could at least hold my head up knowing I built that sh!t myself...

Team Camaro just poops in somebody's garage and says "build me a race car". The has almost the same amount of work done as the RX-8 did in the other class. Too much is too much.

Ahh hahahahahah!!! Looks like Dumbo in Ruby Slippers...

 

[Stuntman]

The Z/28.R is as much a race car as the Mustang's GT.R in Tudor GT. It's as if they need an entire tier above the competition to be competitive. It is also like that in SCCA T1 where they use a Riley Camaro GT.R LOL!! I mean ZL1) against a Boss 302S.

So youre saying the z28r is as much of a racecar as a tubeframe racecar with wings, splitters, and a sequential transmission?

 

[FATTBoss]

So youre saying the z28r is as much of a racecar as a tubeframe racecar with wings, splitters, and a sequential transmission?

Yeah, that post confused me too!

 

[thePill]

So youre saying the z28r is as much of a racecar as a tubeframe racecar with wings, splitters, and a sequential transmission?

Um, hello? The old FR500 in Grand Am GT had no sequential gear box or tubed frame. It is not as extensive as the Camaro GT.R in the same class. Even then, the Mustang didn't swap out panels to Carbon Fiber or use a fiberglass body. You make me laugh bud!

Don't get the GT3 car confused with a GT4.

Edit: I count 5 different FR500's (C, GT4, S, GT and GT3). Only the FR500 needed extensive redesign for the IRS and on board Jack system. The GT (or GT.R as IMSA calls it) was a step up from the S or Mustang Challenge cars. All had Tremec's...

 

[Stuntman]

Um, hello? The old FR500 in Grand Am GT had no sequential gear box or tubed frame. It is not as extensive as the Camaro GT.R in the same class. Even then, the Mustang didn't swap out panels to Carbon Fiber or use a fiberglass body. You make me laugh bud!

Don't get the GT3 car confused with a GT4.

Edit: I count 5 different FR500's (C, GT4, S, GT and GT3). Only the FR500 needed extensive redesign for the IRS and on board Jack system. The GT (or GT.R as IMSA calls it) was a step up from the S or Mustang Challenge cars. All had Tremec's...

Which FR500GT are you referring to that raced in Grand-Am GT? Who ran it?

 

[thePill]

The MARC VDS car in FIA GT3 was a FR500GT3. It was the most extensively modified S197 approved for Motorsport (Not counting the Trans Am GT500's in South America). Not sure if it had a tube frame, the body was an modified OEM shell. It did have IRS, a 5.3 and an inboard jack system if I remember right. The Mustang in Grand Am GT called a GT.R was a FR500GT. It had major modifications but still not to the degree that the GS.R and Z/28.R does in GS. The Mustang FR500GT4 was near OEM and won a GT4 Championship in 2008 (FIA). The Mustang FR500C was the Grand Am GS car, also near OEM.

After 3 Major Championships and a Triple Crown, BMW complained about the FR500, and rightfully so. They were following the rules while Ford was not... In turn, the Boss 302 program was started.

I give the Camaro a lot of sh!t, and just as BMW's complaints, it is justified. The Camaro is actually on the same path as the Mustang and FR500. They are just a decade behind. The 2011 Camaro SSX is the same broadcast as the 40th Anniversary Mustang GTR was. "We are returning to competition!!!"

However, it will take 10 years to expedite that evolution, even longer without any Championships or class domination. Unless they dump loads of money into the Motorsport program right now, this change will have to happen over time. They just don't have the money to offer what Ford, BMW, Porsche, Nissan and Aston do... A near OEM experience.

Being a slave to displacement can be blamed on the pushrod V8. With the Z06 retreating from Motorsport, and the 1LE calling it quits, this could spell trouble down the road. Once Chevy invested $820 million into a pushrod engine, I foreseen this doom.

@FATTBoss,

I know it is frustrating and it undermines the class, but it is a necessary step for the Camaro. Based on it performance and past season results, I don't see the Camaro program getting much attention. I would have loved to admit the Camaro was moving in the right direction...

...although, with the decision to use 7 liters in a Pratt built Camaro, it has me leaning the other way. I will heavily criticize the whole operation and anyone involved because of this. They had more than enough time to develop a car. Ford has developed multiple Mustangs in the same 5 years to accommodate the rules.

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