GT350 vs. Z/28

[WOT]

Sorry Pill, but the car has gain weight. If you look closely at a more open forum someone who's been a reliable source for year has confirmed the R&T article is accurate.
The Mustang GT will be 3770-3800lbs.

Sponsored

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Sorry Pill, but the car has gain weight. If you look closely at a more open forum someone who's been a reliable source for year has confirmed the R&T article is accurate.
The Mustang GT will be 3770-3800lbs.

Can you share the link to this confirmation?

 

[thePill]

Sorry Pill, but the car has gain weight. If you look closely at a more open forum someone who's been a reliable source for year has confirmed the R&T article is accurate.
The Mustang GT will be 3770-3800lbs.

Steeda has already came forward and said it was a guess based on previous IRS systems. Read Autoblog and Torque counter report, it kinda explains it. R&T just fabricated more precise details into their story. It was a reaction to the Steeda Blog and this sites reaction.

I usually don't put faith into popular media let alone people on the internet. Don't take offense, I just can't account for 200-300lbs, even more so when you factor in the platforms design efficiency we have already seen. There is a lot of missing metal on the S550 the S197 had to lug around. That 3750-3800lbs isn't considering a potential 100-200lbs weight reduction vs. the S197's structure.

That's a lot of weight bud, weight that just isn't there...

For the record, your the 12th person today that has come forth with inside info. Your not getting inside info from Ford unless your inside...

 

[WOT]

Can you share the link to this confirmation?

Sorry bud no link, You'll be able to find it if you've been around long enough.

Steeda has already came forward and said it was a guess based on previous IRS systems. Read Autoblog and Torque counter report, it kinda explains it. R&T just fabricated more precise details into their story. It was a reaction to the Steeda Blog and this sites reaction.

I usually don't put faith into popular media let alone people on the internet. Don't take offense, I just can't account for 200-300lbs, even more so when you factor in the platforms design efficiency we have already seen. There is a lot of missing metal on the S550 the S197 had to lug around. That 3750-3800lbs isn't considering a potential 100-200lbs weight reduction vs. the S197's structure.

That's a lot of weight bud, weight that just isn't there...

For the record, your the 12th person today that has come forth with inside info. Your not getting inside info from Ford unless your inside...

No offense taken. Have you considered that If a group of people are claiming the same thing then there maybe some truth to that?
Look, I do hope the car loses or stays the same weight but I wont lie to myself either, specially when the info coming has been spot for many years.

Lastly, You're not inside Ford so it's safe to say you're merely speculating?

 

[thePill]

Groups of people circulating the same false information doesn't make it true...

 

[airjonny]

I hope Steeda is wrong, but Ford can't answer a yes or no question on whether there's a gain or not...and that's troubling for me.

 

[thePill]

Ford doesn't have weight, power or MPG yet. They can't report what they don't have...

They probably have a rough idea which is why they left us with a general statement.

"Set aggressive weight loss goals and are on track to meet them"

(Not exact phases)

At this point, even if they did release a lower curb weight, it would be viewed as "hiding something" or "cutting corners".

If it is heavier, it's not from "new roof crush standards" or just the IRS as reported from those "insiders". If there were a lot of unknowns like the C7 had (new everything) then it would be hard to call. I've seen the platform and know for a fact there is far less metal in the S550. Far less glass too...

To meet a supposed 3800-3900lbs, new equipment weight would have to overcome any weight loss in the structure (could be 100-300lbs for all we know, it's smaller for sure) and add in the extra 200-300lbs...

Does any of those weights add up? Even a 3700lbs curb weight would be 200lbs minimum... For just IRS and new Federal Saftey Requirments (that appearrently don't affect any thing except the new Mustang). The C7 gains 20-30lbs for a high class info-tainment system. Will the Mustang use yet a heavier system standard?

Steeda estimated a number, from there, idiots (R&T included) ran with it as gospel. These are the same people that buy, read and believe every favorable magazine publication.

Moving on....

Ford removed 88lbs from the 2012 Fiesta with NO aluminum and NO redesign. Chevy removed 99lbs from the Vette and had to use Aluminum and during an all new redesign.

Weight savings is Fords thing... Volvo taught them how.

 

[thePill]

The z28 received some negative feedback in R&T's z28 vs. the World. The oil temperatures were over 300 degrees. They said " Unacceptable for any high performance street car". Only after 3 laps...

Fair warning fella's, the z28 hasn't had the R&D that the ZL1 did. This is piss poor for an $80,000 dollar track car.

Unbelievable...

Edit: They go on to say that the Camaro has reached the limits of the platform. I say the MSRP told us that. The z28 was 10-15mph slower than the rest of the pack (excluding the BRZ) and it tells us the tires/brakes are doing all the work. In other words, with high engine oil temps and high tread-wear slicks, the z28 can lap quick... but not for long periods of time.

If the z28 were a true track/race offering, the R&D would have seen to the oil temp issue. They said the needle was buried... that's over 300 degrees. Your pretty much boiling the oil. Still, this occurs with an oil cooler and dry sump. That's just down right pathetic...

The common overall opinion is: Too heavy and too expensive for what you get. This time a base GTR was used instead of the Track Edition, equipped with run flats like the TE. It was 0.3 behind the z28, pretty much where the Track Edition was at.

Since this was in Cali, this was probably done along side the initial Cali test from R&T. No Corvettes has me thinking it was an event overseen by Chevy themselves.

Anyway... You can't ask $80,000 dollars for a track car when you haven't looked into the oil cooling systems. An engineer would never allow that to happen, especially on a track focused car. Don't just assume that the oil cooler that worked on the ZL1 will work on a slightly lighter, less powerful z28. The dry sump should also help with cooling too... But let me guess, the tank is positioned on the oil pan right?

That's a pretty serious issue and could cause catastrophic engine failure while on duty. The LS7 was not engineered to pull so much weight.

You need more cooling...

 

[Taneras]

The z28 received some negative feedback in R&T's z28 vs. the World. The oil temperatures were over 300 degrees. They said " Unacceptable for any high performance street car". Only after 3 laps...

Fair warning fella's, the z28 hasn't had the R&D that the ZL1 did. This is piss poor for an $80,000 dollar track car.

Unbelievable...

Edit: They go on to say that the Camaro has reached the limits of the platform. I say the MSRP told us that. The z28 was 10-15mph slower than the rest of the pack (excluding the BRZ) and it tells us the tires/brakes are doing all the work. In other words, with high engine oil temps and high tread-wear slicks, the z28 can lap quick... but not for long periods of time.

If the z28 were a true track/race offering, the R&D would have seen to the oil temp issue. They said the needle was buried... that's over 300 degrees. Your pretty much boiling the oil. Still, this occurs with an oil cooler and dry sump. That's just down right pathetic...

The common overall opinion is: Too heavy and too expensive for what you get. This time a base GTR was used instead of the Track Edition, equipped with run flats like the TE. It was 0.3 behind the z28, pretty much where the Track Edition was at.

Since this was in Cali, this was probably done along side the initial Cali test from R&T. No Corvettes has me thinking it was an event overseen by Chevy themselves.

Anyway... You can't ask $80,000 dollars for a track car when you haven't looked into the oil cooling systems. An engineer would never allow that to happen, especially on a track focused car. Don't just assume that the oil cooler that worked on the ZL1 will work on a slightly lighter, less powerful z28. The dry sump should also help with cooling too... But let me guess, the tank is positioned on the oil pan right?

That's a pretty serious issue and could cause catastrophic engine failure while on duty. The LS7 was not engineered to pull so much weight.

You need more cooling...

Was reading a Camaro forum, some members were saying that they left some sort of deflector in, I think it was a rain deflector. At work now and I don't feel like pulling it up again, but they said that's why the temps were high. Said something to the effect that Chevy's recommendations is that this part be removed for track applications.

Not sure if true, but its something to consider.

 

[thePill]

300 plus degrees is bad, like "Do Not Race" bad. Rule of thumb, oil temps should not exceed 40 degrees over the water temps.

Depending in the oil, even synthetics will begin to breakdown, boil and burn around 270. If 300 degrees is accurate, they will need to recall those vehicles ASAP. I read the z28's engine oil warnings in the manual, it seems the z28 can go through some heavy oil usage while tracking.

Something needs to change here, this issue can't continue.

 

[Stuntman]

300 plus degrees is bad, like "Do Not Race" bad. Rule of thumb, oil temps should not exceed 40 degrees over the water temps.

Depending in the oil, even synthetics will begin to breakdown, boil and burn around 270. If 300 degrees is accurate, they will need to recall those vehicles ASAP. I read the z28's engine oil warnings in the manual, it seems the z28 can go through some heavy oil usage while tracking.

Something needs to change here, this issue can't continue.

Most synthetics do not break down at 270*F and I don't think any synthetic motor oil boils at even 300*F.

Some endurance racecars run at 300*F for hours on end. Personally I'd like to see 50*F less than that. Cool it down - yes, but I'd far from feel like its the end of the world.

 

[thePill]

^ That is incorrect

Breakdown can happen even lower, boiling can occur just above 300. Depends on the oil.

300+ degrees is a NO GO.

Two other vehicles ran hot, they complained about them too. Hot I mean 260 degrees... They sh!t themselves about the 300.

Anyone remember people flipping out about some 2012 Boss 302's running 240 in race conditions? That was 240/240 and nobody was happy, they would remove the grill. Ford changed the fascia a year later.

In my opinion, the 2014 Camaro doesn't cool well. Flotie or die!!!

I think the Camaro uses Moble 1 Synthetic... Which isn't a true synthetic. The issue shouldn't be with the oil itself. But, once your viscosity rating reaches 0, your oil is basically water and has began to pop. Yeah, it's not foaming and burning off. It's definitely not good for an engine oil system that runs on vacuum. It's not the oil... It never liquified in the Z06, so you have to look at cooling and airflow.

The rain deflector is positioned where in the z28? Is it positioned where the ZL1 had one? Below the Mohawk to deflect falling water away from the belts right? It never needed to remove that BUT, it used the old fascia... and still does. If removing the deflector can bring 300 down to 240, then so be it. I think it's a combination of poor in and out flow. The initial issue overall could lay primarily on the upper grill opening redesign. The airflow below is being used... BEWARE!!! THE A/C option on this car is NOT ADVISED. It places the A/C condenser over the radiator. Unless they do it another way...

I will need to check and see if R&T option the AC or not. That's important for people to know if they are tracking or not.

It doesn't say, it does weigh 3851lbs and, for a post '11 car, that is pretty light. The base SS's curb weight was pretty close to what I had been saying, 3950lbs. The auto is probably close to 4000lbs if not over. Damn... that's a lot... I think 3820 was what they claim, I've seen 386x I think. This is a big question that needs answered before I really go any further.

Just be aware, an A/C condenser could be a huge issue for a tracked z28. If indeed the car tested had A/C and it ran with 300+ oil temps, the dry sump system wasn't design for that, not oil that has liquified... and at 300, it's water. NO A/C at all fella's, regardless if R&T had on or not. If it did, 300 is bad and no AC will bring it down to normal levels. If it didn't, then it will get very bad... The engine gets heat soaked after 3 laps, need to extend that to a 20 lap session somehow.

How is the oil cooled in a z28?

(Fin)

 

[w3rkn]

fwiw.. My BMW runs at 260~270. Much diff than a v8, but 300 can't be too efficient.

 

[thePill]

We had a few cars run 275-310 and it caused problems , especially long term (10-20,000 miles).

 

[Norm Peterson]

I glanced through the R&T article just enough to see mention of that 300° oil temp . . . which leaves kind of a sour taste. Wonder if/how that affected those Nurburgring times.


Norm

Sponsored