codegrinder
Active Member
Here is a video of mine, you can't hear the ticking anymore because the knocking is too loud :(
Warning, kind of loud.
Warning, kind of loud.
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GT Pony
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Sounds pretty bad, better get it in to the dealership. Let us know what they find, and good luck on it not being too serious.
ValidusTalon
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Perhaps I was a rarity in that when I took my car in for the "tick" (after the first oil change at just over 1K miles) the service advisor, a fellow Mustang enthusiast, was well aware of the issue. They noted the complaint saying they had many and are went further to say that several brand new '18s are making the noise before the first oil change (she started one sitting there in there pre-sale prep area and sure enough, there was that familiar sound). They obliged me by changing the oil again, checking for shavings in the oil and filter (was allowed to stand next to the tech and watch). They also scoped each cylinder and nothing, looked brand new to me.... so I really had nothing further to complain about, they went above and beyond, but as many have noted the summary was "normal". The service advisors only advice, beyond the typical "bring it back if it keeps it up" was telling me I need to beat on the car a bit (with a 
, she didn't suggest I abuse it of course).
I voted "additive and fixed" as that is the case for me, for now. I was put onto the additive originally through a Mercedes-Benz owners group. I met up w/a few of them at a cars and coffee type event, several with very high end AMG's, and three of them swearing by the stuff (liqui moly ceratec). So far, after over a week, it's addressed the issue for me as well. No tick, the car sounds the way it did the day I bought it. Rather than listening for it, and being irritated by it, now I'm back to just enjoying the car.
, she didn't suggest I abuse it of course). I voted "additive and fixed" as that is the case for me, for now. I was put onto the additive originally through a Mercedes-Benz owners group. I met up w/a few of them at a cars and coffee type event, several with very high end AMG's, and three of them swearing by the stuff (liqui moly ceratec). So far, after over a week, it's addressed the issue for me as well. No tick, the car sounds the way it did the day I bought it. Rather than listening for it, and being irritated by it, now I'm back to just enjoying the car.
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accel
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What AMG guys use ceratec for?Perhaps I was a rarity in that when I took my car in for the "tick" (after the first oil change at just over 1K miles) the service advisor, a fellow Mustang enthusiast, was well aware of the issue. They noted the complaint saying they had many and are went further to say that several brand new '18s are making the noise before the first oil change (she started one sitting there in there pre-sale prep area and sure enough, there was that familiar sound). They obliged me by changing the oil again, checking for shavings in the oil and filter (was allowed to stand next to the tech and watch). They also scoped each cylinder and nothing, looked brand new to me.... so I really had nothing further to complain about, they went above and beyond, but as many have noted the summary was "normal". The service advisors only advice, beyond the typical "bring it back if it keeps it up" was telling me I need to beat on the car a bit (with a
I voted "additive and fixed" as that is the case for me, for now. I was put onto the additive originally through a Mercedes-Benz owners group. I met up w/a few of them at a cars and coffee type event, several with very high end AMG's, and three of them swearing by the stuff (liqui moly ceratec). So far, after over a week, it's addressed the issue for me as well. No tick, the car sounds the way it did the day I bought it. Rather than listening for it, and being irritated by it, now I'm back to just enjoying the car.
ValidusTalon
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It was a brief conversation and as I gathered (wasn't a one on one conversation) to quiet down their some common noise in their engine (maybe transmission?). I did pipe up and ask if they would anticipate issues with my running it in my wife's Mercedes (not an AMG model unfortunately) and the response was positive.
For clarity sake, this event wasn't sponsored by MB, and as far as I know it was just a few guys comparing notes on their very expensive toys. My point was simply it was the first time I had heard of the product, but ultimately I decided to try it because of mentions here and in several other forums, and my growing disdain for the tick. After a clean bill of health from my dealership I almost felt petty for it, but the tick was annoying the hell out of me...
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TheLion
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It's not new for Mercedes, BMW and Audi guys to run Cera Tec or other Boron Nitride additives in their oil to quiet down noise and it's FAR from a Ford only issue. I've seen so many posts for the big 3 German cars, but also volvo, hyundai, kia, Chevy, Dodge etc. They typically are more common with newer TDI engines or high compression NA engines.
Some of these modern high performance engines can be excessively loud and clanky. They sound like the are dying, literally, but nothing is wrong with 99% of them. The noise is not just a Ford problem. I just got done posting some issues with the Charger 392 low RPM rattle and the Hemi tick that bothers so many Dodge owners from the Charger forums to illustrate a point to another forum member. One Dodge part vendor said they have helped over 20,000 Hemi owners now over the past several years just for those noise issues with all variants of the Hemi....guess what? They use a specific custom blend of oil that has additives to address engine noise "issues" as it were.
The mazda MX-5's had noisy lifters that were resolved by Boron Nitride additives (not Cera Tec, but another brand, same concept) and that was a common fix for NA Miata's. I had one myself back in college, a 1997 MX-5 M-Edition, Marina Green. Fun little car. Yah, it was clanky, very little sound dampening and you heard every little noise that car made.
There will always be those few who have legitimate mechanical problems, but it seems by far the majority have noises that are benign yet alarming. You should listen to HermanGerman's 2018 GT video. Most people that would listen to that engine would say there's something wrong. But there isn't.
In fact the dealer even started up a brand new 2018 GT next to his, no mileage on it, sounded exactly the same. The random "knocking" sound in his video is the High Pressure Fuel Pump. My 2.3L ecoboost when I had it made the same type of sound, but on that car, because the HPFP was in the back, I could hear it quite easily in the cabin unless the music was up or the air vent was above #3 setting.
It made an erratic / random knocking type sound that was somewhat out of rhythm with the engine. For quite a while I was absolutely convinced something was wrong until I realized what it was. And some oils did a better job of dampening the sound, but none of them eliminated it, although I never did try any additives. It had an ATM stepped core inter cooler, 3.73 Torsen diff I swapped out from a junked GT, FP Short throw, FP Street Springs and sway bars, sub-frame supports and a Ford Performance Power Pack since only 10k miles.
It had 36k miles when I traded it in for my GT because I wanted more power but didn't think it was safe to go beyond the Power Pack from Ford performance without a built bottom end. That and I just love the sound of the V8, may sound dumb, but there's nothing like an NA V8. I beat the absolute crap out of that car just like I do the GT by driving it hard and squeezing all I can out of it when it's safe to do so. It had zero issues other than it was clanky as all get.
Some of these modern high performance engines can be excessively loud and clanky. They sound like the are dying, literally, but nothing is wrong with 99% of them. The noise is not just a Ford problem. I just got done posting some issues with the Charger 392 low RPM rattle and the Hemi tick that bothers so many Dodge owners from the Charger forums to illustrate a point to another forum member. One Dodge part vendor said they have helped over 20,000 Hemi owners now over the past several years just for those noise issues with all variants of the Hemi....guess what? They use a specific custom blend of oil that has additives to address engine noise "issues" as it were.
The mazda MX-5's had noisy lifters that were resolved by Boron Nitride additives (not Cera Tec, but another brand, same concept) and that was a common fix for NA Miata's. I had one myself back in college, a 1997 MX-5 M-Edition, Marina Green. Fun little car. Yah, it was clanky, very little sound dampening and you heard every little noise that car made.
There will always be those few who have legitimate mechanical problems, but it seems by far the majority have noises that are benign yet alarming. You should listen to HermanGerman's 2018 GT video. Most people that would listen to that engine would say there's something wrong. But there isn't.
In fact the dealer even started up a brand new 2018 GT next to his, no mileage on it, sounded exactly the same. The random "knocking" sound in his video is the High Pressure Fuel Pump. My 2.3L ecoboost when I had it made the same type of sound, but on that car, because the HPFP was in the back, I could hear it quite easily in the cabin unless the music was up or the air vent was above #3 setting.
It made an erratic / random knocking type sound that was somewhat out of rhythm with the engine. For quite a while I was absolutely convinced something was wrong until I realized what it was. And some oils did a better job of dampening the sound, but none of them eliminated it, although I never did try any additives. It had an ATM stepped core inter cooler, 3.73 Torsen diff I swapped out from a junked GT, FP Short throw, FP Street Springs and sway bars, sub-frame supports and a Ford Performance Power Pack since only 10k miles.
It had 36k miles when I traded it in for my GT because I wanted more power but didn't think it was safe to go beyond the Power Pack from Ford performance without a built bottom end. That and I just love the sound of the V8, may sound dumb, but there's nothing like an NA V8. I beat the absolute crap out of that car just like I do the GT by driving it hard and squeezing all I can out of it when it's safe to do so. It had zero issues other than it was clanky as all get.
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kluke15
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just changed the oil. decided to go back to mc 5-20 from mobil 5-20 and a bottle of ceratec, so far so good. warm up was fine, light revs and my run around the block and i cant seem to hear it anymore. will update if it returns
CEHollier
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In a word Yes. I have read many posts on their forums on the tick.
GT Pony
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Cobra Jet said:
Here’s another question - does the F-Series also suffer from the same engine concerns as the S550?
Here’s another question - does the F-Series also suffer from the same engine concerns as the S550?
Has anyone heard or read if the F-150 guys are trying the Cera Tec?
TheLion
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Posted this theory in another thread, but here's some food for thought. hBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride) is typically only 0.1% wt concentration, very low. It's more or less a nano surface treatment. However one of Liqui Moly's competitors has a similar product, but they are more open in advertising about the carrier / suspension fluild. They are using Group V oils. Ester. They advertise that very fact that the additive fluid is as high of a quality and performance as you can get, so your not diluting your motor oil with a lesser fluid of that which it displaces. Remember we're talking about the base oil stock here, not the additives package which affects the overall oil's properties as MUCH as the base stock itself.
The oil additives likely have mostly base stock with some suspension enhancers and then the main ingredient, hBN. So the real question is, does the hBN have any effect on sound or is it the Ester base stock that's really making the difference in the sound? Esters are known for adhering well to metal surfaces which gives them better boundary layer performance. So it may be the Ester base stock or POA base stock used that is displacing about 1/2 quart of your motor oil that's the primary reason for the sound dampening.
hBN has not been shown to have any meaningful impact on oil viscosity in ANY testing I've seen. Period. And I find it hard to believe a nano film is going to take up any meaningful amount of gap. However it's benefits still remain none the less: 1. lower friction 2. lower wear (friction and wear do not necessarily correspond, you can have decreased friction with the same wear rates) 3. better thermal conductivity (pulls heat out more efficiently). So I personally am going to try it even though my "BBQ tick" is very mild and generally goes away after a thousand miles on the oil, just for the thermal and wear benefits.
But I'm starting to think it's the base stock, possibly a POA or Ester, that is the reason for noise reduction. I could be wrong, I do know that that the nano particles more or less cause a "self micro polishing" of the metal surfaces, so the oil control rings, oil pumps and any other fluid / gas sealing surfaces typically do seal better. Many people report much longer intervals before they get darkening of the oil from blow by, lower oil consumption, slightly higher pressure in older cars etc. But some of that could be a combination of the nano particles AND the Ester base stock which will also have similar effects.
So I think the base stock oil that comprises 99% of the oil additive is where some of these benefits are coming from. I wonder if just adding in 1/2 a quart of an Ester based oil to your regular Group III snythetic would have the same "BBQ Tick Eliminating" benefits.....might be a cheaper route for those that don't care about the benefits of hBN. So if your fine with the performance of off the shelf Group III's like Mobil 1 or Valvoline or MC Full Synthetics etc., maybe just buying a quart of a very high end 5W-20 or 5W-30 Ester based Group V oil and adding 1/2 a quart of that ever oil change might do the trick...
The oil additives likely have mostly base stock with some suspension enhancers and then the main ingredient, hBN. So the real question is, does the hBN have any effect on sound or is it the Ester base stock that's really making the difference in the sound? Esters are known for adhering well to metal surfaces which gives them better boundary layer performance. So it may be the Ester base stock or POA base stock used that is displacing about 1/2 quart of your motor oil that's the primary reason for the sound dampening.
hBN has not been shown to have any meaningful impact on oil viscosity in ANY testing I've seen. Period. And I find it hard to believe a nano film is going to take up any meaningful amount of gap. However it's benefits still remain none the less: 1. lower friction 2. lower wear (friction and wear do not necessarily correspond, you can have decreased friction with the same wear rates) 3. better thermal conductivity (pulls heat out more efficiently). So I personally am going to try it even though my "BBQ tick" is very mild and generally goes away after a thousand miles on the oil, just for the thermal and wear benefits.
But I'm starting to think it's the base stock, possibly a POA or Ester, that is the reason for noise reduction. I could be wrong, I do know that that the nano particles more or less cause a "self micro polishing" of the metal surfaces, so the oil control rings, oil pumps and any other fluid / gas sealing surfaces typically do seal better. Many people report much longer intervals before they get darkening of the oil from blow by, lower oil consumption, slightly higher pressure in older cars etc. But some of that could be a combination of the nano particles AND the Ester base stock which will also have similar effects.
So I think the base stock oil that comprises 99% of the oil additive is where some of these benefits are coming from. I wonder if just adding in 1/2 a quart of an Ester based oil to your regular Group III snythetic would have the same "BBQ Tick Eliminating" benefits.....might be a cheaper route for those that don't care about the benefits of hBN. So if your fine with the performance of off the shelf Group III's like Mobil 1 or Valvoline or MC Full Synthetics etc., maybe just buying a quart of a very high end 5W-20 or 5W-30 Ester based Group V oil and adding 1/2 a quart of that ever oil change might do the trick...
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TheLion
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BTW it's Xenum VRX-500. That's a competitor to Liqui Moly's "Cera Tec" additive: https://xenum.com/en/home/products/additives/engine-oil/vrx-500/
Take a look at this:
Anyway, with Xenum, at least we KNOW that any fluid being displaced is being displaced by a better performing fluid (that is compatible) with what's already in your typical Group III base stock + additive package. I'm NOT suggesting Xenum's VRX 500 is better than Cera Tec, it's just another possible additive, but it's more of a known quantity as I can't find any information on Liqui Moly's base oil they use.
I'll do the full guinea pig test and run 500 mL (about 1/2 a quart) of Cera Tec as that's the suggested proper ratio of oil / additive according to Cera Tec. The 5.0 should not have any issues running on 7.5 quarts or even 7 quarts of oil and I believe the 1/2 quart I'm displacing is with a base stock that is at least as good as the Group III that comprises the bulk of Mobil 1's Advanced Full Synthetic (and most other's) concoction. Some time at the end of September I should have some time to mess around with it, super busy right now however so it'll have to wait until then.
And on the bright side, I don't believe that Cera Tec or VRX 500 will interfere or meaningfully alter your oil's overall performance in any negative way. hBN is chemically inert, it's not going to react with any common motor oil base stock's or their additive packages. Ester's and POA's can also be mixed with Group III's, in fact many Group III's do have small amounts of Ester or POA base stock added to enhance it's overall properties without going full Group V which is very expensive.
Take a look at this:
I don't know if Liqui Moly is using an Ester or POA base stock oil in their Cera Tec additive, but it's possible and that MAY be where the sound dampening benefits are coming from given Ester's notable ability to adhere to metal surfaces. It certainly would affect the base stock's viscosity. In fact some Group III synthetics do contain small amounts of Ester base stock mixed in, like 5% for example to enhance it's overall characteristics along with the additive packages.
Anyway, with Xenum, at least we KNOW that any fluid being displaced is being displaced by a better performing fluid (that is compatible) with what's already in your typical Group III base stock + additive package. I'm NOT suggesting Xenum's VRX 500 is better than Cera Tec, it's just another possible additive, but it's more of a known quantity as I can't find any information on Liqui Moly's base oil they use.
I'll do the full guinea pig test and run 500 mL (about 1/2 a quart) of Cera Tec as that's the suggested proper ratio of oil / additive according to Cera Tec. The 5.0 should not have any issues running on 7.5 quarts or even 7 quarts of oil and I believe the 1/2 quart I'm displacing is with a base stock that is at least as good as the Group III that comprises the bulk of Mobil 1's Advanced Full Synthetic (and most other's) concoction. Some time at the end of September I should have some time to mess around with it, super busy right now however so it'll have to wait until then.
And on the bright side, I don't believe that Cera Tec or VRX 500 will interfere or meaningfully alter your oil's overall performance in any negative way. hBN is chemically inert, it's not going to react with any common motor oil base stock's or their additive packages. Ester's and POA's can also be mixed with Group III's, in fact many Group III's do have small amounts of Ester or POA base stock added to enhance it's overall properties without going full Group V which is very expensive.
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AmericanV8Guy
Well-Known Member
I had the tick on my '14 5.0. Unfortunately it was totaled before I could determine the cause. I was frustrated to realize that I had the tick with my '16 5.0. This time, it actually sounds louder, and I can still hear it while cruising, despite having the Corsa Extreme Catback (aka loud enough to hear it over that loud exhaust). Brought it into my Ford dealership to have the problem looked at. They acknowledged that it wasn't normal. They said it was coming from the intake manifold, so they swapped that (which I knew wasn't the issue). Problem is still there. My service rep told me that it actually sounds like I might have a loose camshaft? (didn't know that was a thing), and so they would probably have to swap my engine out for a new one. That said, my dealership isn't willing to actually do the work until there is a noticeable loss in power or critical failure. The reason behind this is because apparently they have to send the old potentially defective engine to Ford HQ to have it checked out. If they find it to be fine, with no apparent issues or damage, then the dealer eats the cost. So because they don't want to run that risk, I am stuck with a potentially ticking time bomb of an engine. I sent a written letter to Ford (to keep a paper trail) only for a rep to respond by saying that I should bring it to another dealership. Closest dealership that isn't the one I use is over an hour away, so its not really feasible. Made an another appointment to bring my car in this coming Monday, and will be a little more pushy, stating that it is their responsibility to get this problem resolved. I also have a new issue that arose that's probably related to my transmission, so have to deal with that now.....
JGonvardi
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That sucks dude. Mine has been in the shop for 3 weeks for the same issue. I did get a short block approved but the parts haven’t been shipped yet. Good luck with yours.
Kong76
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Changed vote to dealer fixes didn't solve problem. Not sure what I want to do now. I do know if I am going to make payments on something, I should be enjoying it. Unfortunately that's not the case.
AmericanV8Guy
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Thanks Mike. Perry Ford SB decided to give me yet another run-around, and I'm fed up with it. Now driving it to the next Ford dealership in Buellton to try my luck there... And just realized that you are ignition.photo from IG. Sorry to hear that you are having issues with your stang too. Aside from that, hope that all is well! -Nick
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