GT 350 just got crushed by the C8

[CF-105]

I agree. No production vehicle will be exactly like anyone wants. Even the proverbial infinite monkeys making random designs would come up with any actual car design. LoL There are always compromises. I would MUCH prefer a manual over a DCT but also prefer mid engine and removable roof but I bought a Mustang that had neither. So, if the C8 is not a flop and I can learn to accept the DCT, I will have one.

I'm certainly not expecting it to be perfect. While I haven't driven one yet, I've climbed in and around one, heard them run, etc. To Me, trading something I can really appreciate occasionally, the mid engine design, At least from a driving experience perspective, for something I get to enjoy every drive, and most often, every minute of every drive, seems a bad deal.

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[CF-105]

But the transmission is only one small part of the driving experience. If 99.9% of your driving is on the street, if makes even more sense to drive something that can shift itself. I drive my manual GT maybe twice a month. When I first bought it, I thought it would replace my truck as a daily, but I went back to my 2500 after a month of stop and go traffic. Just drive the car, that's all I'm saying.

I drive the busiest highway in North America on a daily basis. I drive about 4000 km (2500 miles) a month. I've had my Bullitt since June 1, and have put 25,000 km on it,which is about 15,000 miles. I spend 3 hours a day commuting, And never once, have I regretted getting a manual. To me, a manual is all pleasure. As long as I'm physically able, that's what I will choose.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I drive the busiest highway in North America on a daily basis. I drive about 4000 km (2500 miles) a month. I've had my Bullitt since June 1, and have put 25,000 km on it,which is about 15,000 miles. I spend 3 hours a day commuting, And never once, have I regretted getting a manual. To me, a manual is all pleasure. As long as I'm physically able, that's what I will choose.

Whenever someone complains about too much shifting I always think of the NatLamp book The Job of Sex.

 

[CF-105]

Whenever someone complains about too much shifting I always think of the NatLamp book The Job of Sex.

Lol. Exactly.

 

[16mach1]

I have 8 acres to mow. I prefer using my 32 year old tractor mower even though I have a new commercial Z-turn. The tractor is slower less efficient but I just love using it. In today's world the best performance cars are not manuals. Sure you may prefer driving one over an auto and that is your choice, but the average buyer is going to go with bang for the buck.
So when it comes to performance and price the C8 outshines the 350. I believe Ford will have to make some major upgrades like Gm did to the Z06 from gen to gen or it goes away.

 

[Hack]

You can't be serious with that statement. The current gen z06 and ZR1 both have removable roofs and they decimate fixed roof cars costing much more. To say they're not focused on performance is asinine. Even the base c7, without the z51 package is on par with the current gt350 around a track, is faster in a straight line, and stops better. If that's not performance I don't know what is. The c8 offers the best of both worlds, just like the c7 did, except now it's lacking a manual and the engine is behind the driver.

I don't think I'm being an ass when I say that I want a hard top for the track. I also don't think I'm being an ass when I say that adding a detachable roof has nothing to do with performance and is detrimental to performance.

To me both are obvious. A hard top is safer and a car with a hard top generally can be made lighter than one with a removable roof.

Yes, they put lots of power and handling in the newer Corvettes. Great for magazine racing, right? Now maybe that last statement could be said to be a little asinine, but that's the way I feel about it.

All automotive design is a compromise. It's impossible to get "the best of both worlds". And the new Corvette is designed to fit multiple golf bags and have the top come off. DEFINITELY not the best performance possible. Compromised performance to fit with their use case - old guys buying the car to go to cars and coffee and the golf course. Probably driving 5 mph under the speed limit on the way there.

WITH ALL SEASON TIRES. YAY! Best of both worlds, right?

 

[Laststandard]

How dare they make the C8 more usable and enjoyable!! Stupid GM!

 

[shogun32]

I dearly hope GM has abandoned the asinine legacy Corvette wheel bolt pattern while they were at it.

 

[martinjlm]

I don't think I'm being an ass when I say that I want a hard top for the track. I also don't think I'm being an ass when I say that adding a detachable roof has nothing to do with performance and is detrimental to performance.

To me both are obvious. A hard top is safer and a car with a hard top generally can be made lighter than one with a removable roof.

Yes, they put lots of power and handling in the newer Corvettes. Great for magazine racing, right? Now maybe that last statement could be said to be a little asinine, but that's the way I feel about it.

All automotive design is a compromise. It's impossible to get "the best of both worlds". And the new Corvette is designed to fit multiple golf bags and have the top come off. DEFINITELY not the best performance possible. Compromised performance to fit with their use case - old guys buying the car to go to cars and coffee and the golf course. Probably driving 5 mph under the speed limit on the way there.

WITH ALL SEASON TIRES. YAY! Best of both worlds, right?

The thing is, Corvette C7 and likely C8 have actually managed to have their cake and eat it too. Even with a removable top, a C7 Grand Sport is one of the best track cars you can get for reasonable coin and can outperform many cars that require considerably more coin. I was a passenger in a friend's C7 GS when he reeled in and passed a Porsche GT3 at Michigan's M1 Concourse. Me being a passenger gave him an instant 200 lb disadvantage . No doubt driver skill had a lot to do with it. My friend is one helluva driver, but both he and the GT3 owner are garage owners at M1 and both know the course very well. A solid roof might have meant he may have been able to catch the GT3 a fraction of a lap sooner.

As for the C8 All-Season Performance Tires.....they are capable at 1G. That speaks volumes. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28414993/2020-chevrolet-corvette-mid-engine-all-season-tires/

 

[shogun32]

To me the removable roof isn't a positive and it's more than just a minor annoyance.

Do track organizers make exceptions (turn a blind eye) to the Corvette's lack of unit roof or is every modern Corvette owner obligated to install sanction-body approved roll cages?

 

[Arthonon]

I have to admit that I don't understand the issue with the removable top. If it caused noticeable flex, or caused it to under-perform compared to similar cars, I could see it, but I don't recall anyone ever saying anything like "if only it didn't have that removable top, it would have been able to keep up with the competition." As has been mentioned, the 'Vette has been very competitive with cars costing much more, that have hard tops, so it doesn't seem like it's really holding it back.

 

[Hack]

How dare they make the C8 more usable and enjoyable!! Stupid GM!

I guess you prefer and enjoy different features than I do. I would prefer not to have it and that's that.

Here's some reading for you:
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...olet-corvette-stingray-z51-long-term-verdict/

Our Corvette sadly wasn't without its faults over the past 15 months. My biggest problem with the 'Vette was that it was making sounds it wasn't supposed to make. The removable targa top rattled like a train click-clacking over rails, the steering wheel squeaks like a mouse, the driver door creaked when opening and closing, and the brakes squealed excessively. The only thing worse than your new car's interior making a noise it isn't supposed to be making is your new car's cabin making four separate noises it isn't supposed to be making. The creaks and rattles were maddening and seriously detracted from the ownership experience. It got to the point where I simply didn't want to drive the Corvette every day because I was either sick of having to crank the stereo to drown out the noises or having to explain to my passenger why a brand-new $65,000 sports car sounded like an old Jeep.

I have to admit that I don't understand the issue with the removable top. If it caused noticeable flex, or caused it to under-perform compared to similar cars, I could see it, but I don't recall anyone ever saying anything like "if only it didn't have that removable top, it would have been able to keep up with the competition." As has been mentioned, the 'Vette has been very competitive with cars costing much more, that have hard tops, so it doesn't seem like it's really holding it back.

Squeaking, clicking and clacking, extra wind noise and a potential safety concern on track are enough for me. If the car was perfect in all other ways I would definitely overlook it, but it's a factor in the decision on what to buy.

 

[shogun32]

>The removable targa top rattled like a train click-clacking over rails
$3 worth of semi-firm weather stripping from Home Depot?

> the steering wheel squeaks like a mouse
A dab of lithium grease?

> the driver door creaked when opening and closing
Another dab of lithium, WD40, or suitable grease. Perhaps the hinge should have been shimmed with oil-impregnated Nylon spacers.

> and the brakes squealed excessively.
Brillo pad the rotors and choose a more appropriate pad compound. $300?

Sure, a $65K car shouldn't have silly oversights and failure to follow assembly procedure (or stingy with something as cheap as lube) but these problems don't strike me as all that complicated to rectify even for a one-handed and half-blind monkey - aka GM shop tech.

 

[ls6-m22]

Good read on the lack of a fixed roof C8
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/10...-hold-2-25-times-weight-of-the-car-exclusive/

 

[shogun32]

Good read on the lack of a fixed roof C8

> extra-high-strength A-pillars designed to withstand 2.25 times the weight of the car

Except static load bearing isn't very interesting or useful. What kind of instantaneous (and repeated) G or PSI can it withstand while the car is tumbling down the road, or absorb on that initial hit when it lands on it's roof?

Or better yet, how does the top hold up to penetration? If no top it doesn't really matter how strong the supports might be if a piece of guardrail or tree is occupying the same space your head (was) previously.

That said unit-body roofs are hardly built like tanks and have to similarly cover a large expanse of unsupported area.

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