GM is pulling back on EVs

[jtmat]

I believe

And I believe I can fly like Peter Pan. That does not make it so.

Considering your posting history, I wouldn't believe anything you type. No disrespect, but you have been wrong so many times.

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[K4fxd]

No I have been correct, so many times. But you do you.

Coal plants have scrubbers that make the exhaust very clean. Natural gas is clean burning anyway. Cars are so clean it is almost impossible to kill yourself with it running in a garage.

Strip mining minerals for Solar and wind are far worse than any current fossil fuel powered source

Just all it takes is some open minded looking at the systems.

And NO C02 is not a pollutant.

 

[jtmat]

No I have been correct, so many times. But you do you.

Coal plants have scrubbers that make the exhaust very clean. Natural gas is clean burning anyway. Cars are so clean it is almost impossible to kill yourself with it running in a garage.

Strip mining minerals for Solar and wind are far worse than any current fossil fuel powered source

Just all it takes is some open minded looking at the systems.

And NO C02 is not a pollutant.

Made my point. Fact that you typed that and believe it is nuts. Scary even.

After that, you win. I'm done for a couple of days. Let the delusion wear off.

Yes, this is me:

 

[TexasMetallic5.0]

Brake dust gives off 13% more pollution than exhaust fumes. I don’t see any tree huggers removing their brake pads to save the planet.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/automakers-blast-us-plan-hike-215822255.html

“WASHINGTON (Reuters) -A group representing General Motors, Toyota Motor, Volkswagen and nearly all other major automakers on Monday sharply criticized the Biden administration proposal to drastically hike fuel efficiency requirements.”

“The industry group argued the plan would boost average vehicle prices by $3,000 by 2032 because of penalties automakers would face for not being in compliance, adding the figure ’exceeds reason and will increase costs to the American consumer with absolutely no environmental or fuel savings benefits.’"

“The auto alliance said automakers would face more than $14 billion in non-compliance penalties between 2027 and 2032.

U.S. automakers separately have warned the fines would cost GM $6.5 billion, Stellantis $3 billion and Ford $1 billion.”

“Volkswagen, which could face over $800 million in CAFE fines through 2032, said NHTSA's proposal ’is arbitrary, capricious, and an abuse of the agency's discretion to set standards that are not feasible.’”

”Automakers and the United Auto Workers union have previously also complained parallel rules proposed by the Environmental Protection Agency are not feasible and should be significantly softened.”

 

[sk47]

Hello; Something rarely discussed is a compromise about ICE, fossil fuels and the green energy & BEV plans. Fossil fuels have been cleaned up in many places and can be further cleaned in the remaining places.
Green energy can be put into use when practical and some number of folks can use BEV's. If the claims of being cleaner happen to turn out to be even partially correct, then the fossil fuels and ICE replaced will make the air better. This could be done at a rate that will not damage the planet from such extensive mining and other such things. Also will spread the cost out in a more affordable timeline.

Meanwhile since the factories, power plants and other infrastructure for making ICE and burning fossil fuels already exist there is no new construction needed. We also have tried and true power and transport during a long transition.

Then if and when BEV's and green energy get sorted out people will voluntarily go for them. If they (green energy & BEV's) are only partly successful as i suspect, then we will still have fossil fuel & ICE infrastructure to fall back on.

This is not a new argument to be sure. It may smack of being reasonable.

 

[K4fxd]

Made my point.

OK, I'll bite. Please show me where I am wrong. I just might be persuaded if you can

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

OK, I'll bite. Please show me where I am wrong. I just might be persuaded if you can

I think “Peter Pan” flew away. He’s a sneaky lil guy.

 

[sk47]

I think “ Peter Pan” flew away. He’s a sneaky lil guy.

Hello; Back in the 1950's ( I was still a kid) there was a big deal made about a Peter Pan TV stage production. I watched the show. Back then we at most had three channels. Often only one or two. The flying was by cables. I guess it was a decent production. It was televised live I think. Not sure when video tape came along.
As I am typing this I was trying to recall the name of the woman who played Peter Pan. Mary Martin popped into my head.
I do recall when they ask us kids to help Tinkerbell survive. I helped save Tinkerbell.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-...-this-new-vehicle-line?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

Auto giant pulls the plug on this new vehicle line
The decision to pause GM’s EV trucks comes only a week after rival Ford Motor indicated it would pull one shift away from its F-150 Lightning EV pickup plant. The Wall Street Journal has reported that Ford made the decision due to lower-than-expected demand from truck buyers. An internal Ford memo indicated sales for the F-150 have “tanked,” according to The Journal.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ford-mustang-mach-e-recalled-171412721.html

Ford Mustang Mach-E Recalled Because Battery Can't Handle Owners Flooring It

 

[sk47]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/ford-mustang-mach-e-recalled-171412721.html

Ford Mustang Mach-E Recalled Because Battery Can't Handle Owners Flooring It

Hello; The comments at the end of the story are an interesting read. Got me to thinking of three areas where arcing between electrical contacts have been problems or benefits in my life. First the benefit of an arc.
in my youth I managed two movie theaters and when a teen was an usher in a walk-in in theater. In the projection booth were two projectors. Two because the film reels of the time usually only ran around 20 minutes or so. Every 20+ minutes had to switch from one to the other projector.
The projectors used a carbon arc type light. Had a big AC motor which turned a big DC generator to make lots of DC power. To make the light work had to use carbon rods which were burned up in the process.
Turn on the power with the carbon rod separated. The lower the rods till they began to arc. Then keep them apart just enough to maintain the arc. The arc of electricity makes a bright light.

The two types of arc that were a problem happened in auto ignition points and in aquarium heaters. Not as much energy involved as the theater lights. In the auto points each time the points arced some material was removed from one point and deposited on the other. Took many hundreds of thousands of such arcs to cause a problem. I had to file the points from time to time and reset the point gap. Used to be called a tune up.
Same sort of problem in the old style aquarium heaters. After many thousands of contact points opening and closing a similar deposit can form on the contact points. I still have some of the decades old contact point type heaters that work. I sometimes have to take them apart and file the points.
Sorry for the side track. As mentioned in the comments this contact issue in the EV was a poor engineering design. Guess they cut the quality of the contacts to some calculated minimum. Funny in that the one main performance advantage of an EV is the instant torque nature of the electric motor. Figures folks will be flooring the go pedal often.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-joins-gm-ford-slowing-021424340.html

Now even Tesla is slowing production

Tesla joins GM, Ford in slowing EV factory ramp as demand fears spread

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/future-3-5-billion-factory-050000374.html

Ford killing the battery plant the champions keep pointing to.

Future of $3.5 billion factory uncertain after Ford pauses revolutionary project: ‘There are a number of considerations’

 

[sk47]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-joins-gm-ford-slowing-021424340.html

Now even Tesla is slowing production

Tesla joins GM, Ford in slowing EV factory ramp as demand fears spread

Hello; I think two things can be true at the same time. These being dependent on how you approach the situation. Could be EV sales have increased compared to the past. If I sell two items one year and then sell three the next my sales are up 50%. If I sell four items' sales are up 100% and so on.
At the same time the sales may not be enough to justify financially opening up a new production line or even keeping existing lines going at full capacity. Companies have traditionally run up to three eight hour shifts a day. Might be two production shifts with one cleanup & maintenance shift. Cut it back to two shifts perhaps to save on labor costs. Perhaps run all three shifts until too much product is on hand then close all shifts until inventory sells off. A coal company in my area had to do the latter recently after they had too much coal on the ground. Sent workers home until the unit trains could haul away some of it.

I try to keep in mind that the auto companies have been, like it or not, forced into EV production. Guess those doing the forcing had some sort of if we build them people will come to get them notion. Seems the early adopters who wanted an EV are near saturated with them. Now the vehicle has to be sold to more discriminating buyers. Folks for whom the vehicle has to make sense in everyday usage terms with "save the planet" low on the list. A much harder sale.

Even our thread champions are, so far, among the harder to sell to. One telling us how he plans to wait around four years to get one. A thing is for EV's to be successful they will have to compete head to head with ICE or the powers that be will have to go even further with the mandates. I saw some days ago that one state has mandated all government vehicles will be EV. I digress.

Saw where an alphabet agency is to up the MPG requirement for ICE. The idea apparently being this will force companies to sell many more EV's to meet the new requirements. This make a cruel sort of sense I guess. Cruel in that companies will be forced even further out on a limb in terms of EV production. A question which may be the key thing is how do they force consumers to buy a product we do not want? I can think of some ways but not today.

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