GM is pulling back on EVs

[Gregs24]

The electricity companies already have that level of control. What are you going to do? Go back to candles? Run a generator? Seriously?

Do they?

I have solar panels (to charge our car for free amongst other things) and could be self sufficient in electricity with a little bit more investment in storage.

So no - they don't have any control in fact

Sponsored

 

[Gregs24]

The Saudi’s will do as they please, when they please. I’ll ask you again why anyone in their right mind would be grossly undercutting the market?

There is one country doing it - of course they can't sell their oil if they dont!

 

[Gregs24]

It’s not about perfection. It never has been. It’s about finding the path of the least harm.
Whilst plants do sequester carbon, you ignore that NOT installing those solar panels means that VASTLY more carbon will be released into the atmosphere than the plants could ever hope to trap.
It’s not that complex.

The panels yield better results than the plants that are being removed. Simple.

We are “ok” (to use your words) with the latter because it is a permanent fixture, unlike the drilling process that requires new land periodically.
It’s not ideal. Nobody ever claimed it was. But, it is the lesser of two evils.

Solar panels don't have to take the space of 'plants'.

 

[kz]

Hardcore pro-capitalism pro-deregulation people complaining about what is the essence of capitalism (energy companies controlling the market) never cease to amaze me. The irony of this is mind-blowing.

 

[sk47]

Here's how long EVs have to be driven before they save emissions versus gas cars (msn.com)

“The University of Michigan/Ford study found that it took 1.4-1.5 years on the road for electric sedans to save emissions versus traditional sedans. The corresponding numbers were 1.6-1.9 years for electric SUVs and 1.6 years for electric pickup trucks, based on the average number of U.S. vehicle miles traveled.”

“The Volvo study found that, in a scenario in which its power source is the current global energy mix, the C40 Recharge EV would need to cover 68,300 miles to break even with its gas-power equivalent — or almost six years, based on U.S. average miles traveled a year, roughly half its lifetime.”

Hello; The Volvo study has been posted several times already. This may be the first posting of the U of Michigan/Ford study. The numbers change depending on how the EV is charged.

 

[K4fxd]

I’ll ask you again why anyone in their right mind would be grossly undercutting the market?

Two ways to make a million dollars, sell a million widgets for a dollar profit
each or sell one widget for a million.

The panels yield better results than the plants that are being removed. Simple.

You really have drank the Koolaid.

 

[K4fxd]

Here is how I see it,

We are screwing ourselves, our grand kids and our great grand kids. There is no replacement for fossil fuels in the next 100 years or more.

Oh yea, it does not matter what we do, it is going to get warmer. In 1000 10,000 or 100,000 years more or less it will get cooler.

 

[kz]

Here is how I see it,

We are screwing ourselves, our grand kids and our great grand kids. There is no replacement for fossil fuels in the next 100 years or more.

Oh yea, it does not matter what we do, it is going to get warmer. In 1000 10,000 or 100,000 years more or less it will get cooler.

They're absolutely screwed by not by EVs - college tuition is gigantic, healthcare costs are unsustainable, housing is unaccessible. You can only take so many loans. This systems is predatory and completely out of control, but hey, if you work hard you will get there. Yeah, sure. Boomers live in the world from 50 years ago where all those costs were a fraction of what they are today.
EVs and fossil fuels are least of everyone's problem - it'll be fine and there is no reason to have a meltdown about it.

 

[K4fxd]

EVs and fossil fuels are least of everyone's problem -

It's just compounding the problems. We don't have the money for the things you brought up and now you want to spend trillions changing our infrastructure. We don't have the money. SLOW down the roll and in 50 to 100 years your utopia of all EV's might be a reality.

 

[sk47]

Solar panels don't have to take the space of 'plants'.

Hello; Thanks for the graphic example of flawed thinking about solar panels in particular. Not the picture so much as the caption which accompanies it.

The implication is the solar panels have no effect on plants. I have over the years had to park boats on my lawn sometimes. A little over a year ago my brother parked a 30 foot camper in my yard while waiting to find a campground spot. I know from such experience there will be bare spots under the solar panels pictured. Not at the edges, but more into the shaded areas.

Of course, much will depend on the density of the panels. The image from Gregs post shows green spaces left around and between the panel arrays. Not too bad to be truthful, maybe lose 40% to 50% of the grazing capacity of the field. Hard to judge from the image. If all solar panel farms were so layed out, might not be a terrible impact.
Need to refer back to the massive array in the desert of a few posts back. So densely packed birds and fishermen mistake it for a lake.

But as has happened so often in these discussions some unrealistic rebuttal is thrown out. In this case apparently a strategy to diminish the impact of a particular "green energy" application. That Gregs posted this with what i will assume was apparently a straight face ought to put us all on notice.

Green energy infrastructure will have environmental impacts. Fossil fuel infrastructure will have environmental impacts. A trick of the mind appears to be deciding that the "Green agenda" bits and pieces are "clean" while the fossil fuel bits are "dirty". They both will be dirty in their own way. There will be a different sort of dirty from one to the other, but each will have an environmental impact.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Here is how I see it,

We are screwing ourselves, our grand kids and our great grand kids. There is no replacement for fossil fuels in the next 100 years or more.

Oh yea, it does not matter what we do, it is going to get warmer. In 1000 10,000 or 100,000 years more or less it will get cooler.

That’s what these “Save the earth” individuals don’t get. The earth is going to get warmer regardless. The earth will be inhabitable regardless what they do. And if you look at it biblically we are heading in the way to the end of the world regardless. a digital currency, soon after a one world government and that’s when the rise of the antichrist will take place. Peace for 3.5 years then absolute chaos for 3.5. God will take his sheep first and those who worship at the altar of the earth, well they will go as the earth goes.
good luck

 

[Mitch03]

Seriously? You think he’s losing? LMFAO.

YEP! Just like you……

 

[sk47]

They're absolutely screwed by not by EVs - college tuition is gigantic, healthcare costs are unsustainable, housing is unaccessible. You can only take so many loans. This systems is predatory and completely out of control, but hey, if you work hard you will get there. Yeah, sure. Boomers live in the world from 50 years ago where all those costs were a fraction of what they are today.
EVs and fossil fuels are least of everyone's problem - it'll be fine and there is no reason to have a meltdown about it.

Hello; Being a boomer who was in college in the 1960's and got my first career job in January of 1970, I have some insight. Yes, things cost less back then. I could get gasoline for 25 cents a gallon. I could get two hot dogs, an order of fries and a glass of milk for a dollar.

I also mowed big yards for a dollar. My first full time teaching job in a public school paid $4,500 for the entire year. I had to find work during the summer break to get by. Also, in 1970 the president of the time put in place a price and wage freeze which lasted about two years.

It is hard to adjust to modern prices coming from my background. There has been steady inflation over time since before i was born. Watch some old cowboy movies and listen if wages are mentioned. Often $40 a month. Watch a 1960's or 70's movies in which a ransom or big theft is talked about. The Steve McQueen film The Getaway of the 1970's is a good one. He and McGraw flee to Mexico with a few hundred thousand dollars. Back when i first saw that film I thought they were set up for life in style. McQueen and McGraw were just a few years older than me. He is long gone and i do not know about her, but today a few hundred thousand dollars is not retirement money.

 

[sk47]

It's just compounding the problems. We don't have the money for the things you brought up and now you want to spend trillions changing our infrastructure. We don't have the money. SLOW down the roll and in 50 to 100 years your utopia of all EV's might be a reality.

Hello; I agree with this strongly. There are some main issues with the BEV +green energy plans. The idea of having A to B transportation by EV's is not appalling. I could live with a proper BEV. But the current crop of BEV's is not ready for the job and cost too much. A slower "roll" than that being mandated could allow for the issues to be ironed out.
The grid infrastructure WILL have to be made more robust to supply the electric power needed to run homes, business, and transportation. Rolling the upgrades over many decades can make it more affordable. Affordable matters a lot.

I have stated this before. The green and EV folks though their agenda had started back in the early 2000's. I recall talk of peak oil by 2004-2005, then a steep production decline. Did not happen. Fracking and other recovery tech allowed for decades more oil capacity. Then prices were high enough to support oil shale recovery. They panicked, but lucked into enough decision power in places around the world to get the mandated agendas rolling. I think the fear now is when the true costs ( financial & environmental) of the "green energy" & BEV agendas become widely known they may lose that decision power among the elites of the world.

Some folks in Europe had a cold winter last season. Reality may rear its head for many. There may be a big backlash when the costs of these programs start to hit home. I have been finding articles about England with regard to people being pressured to install heat pumps and being forced to do away with the old, but functional, boilers. I went from an oil furnace to a heat pump myself 13 years ago. I still do not like it but was able to seal and insulate the house so i can afford it.

 

[K4fxd]

The trick to a heat pump is to turn the Tstat up 4 degrees higher than what you want. This turns on the aux heating unit and you get hot air. When the chill gets knocked off turn down the stat. Costs a bit more this way but is more comfortable.

Sponsored