GM is pulling back on EVs

[K4fxd]

If we only plugged it in once a week we’d get along just fine. Since we were talking about “Johnny on the fifth floor” I need to take into account that he may not be able to plug in every night like I can..

People in apartment buildings fight over parking spaces. I wonder how a few charging spots would fare.

If an emergency comes up I would not want my EV to be 40, 50%, or less charged. If my gas car is on empty and an emergency popes up I can fill the tank anywhere in 5 or 6 minuets.

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[martinjlm]

Yes Chrysler did try a turbine powered car.

I should have never used the word turbine because it sent you down a rabbit hole. I simply meant a generator that needs outside power to turn.

I have seen the term "turbine" used in association with wind mills and hydro electric plants to describe the generator.

Ok, so let’s re-rack the discussion…

There are two types of zero emissions vehicles. The way they operate is to use electric motors to turn the wheels. The difference between the two is where the energy to power the motors originates.

For Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV), the energy comes from a battery. The energy stored in the battery comes from the electricity grid (your house, an EV Charging station). When the motor runs in reverse (deceleration events) it is a generator that puts energy back into the battery.

For Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles (FCEV), the energy comes from a battery. The energy stored in the battery comes from chemical reactions in an on-board fuel stack that is fueled by hydrogen. When the motor runs in reverse (deceleration events) it is a generator that puts energy back into the battery.

There is a 3rd category that is considered Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (P-ZEV). Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV). For PHEVs, the energy comes primarily from the battery. In some instances the vehicle is not powered by electric motors, but directly from an ICE. The battery gets its energy from a combination of the grid from plugging it in, regeneration from running the motor in reverse as a generator, and the ICE. Some of the ICE ban states make provision for PHEVs which can run an extended amount of time with the ICE turned off.

So, between the plug that is used in the BEV and PHEV, and the fuel stack that is used in the FCEV, which device are you suggesting replacing and what would you replace it with? Keep in mind that like it or not, zero emissions is the goal. How do you get there?

 

[martinjlm]

People in apartment buildings fight over parking spaces. I wonder how a few charging spots would fare.

If an emergency comes up I would not want my EV to be 40, 50%, or less charged. If my gas car is on empty and an emergency popes up I can fill the tank anywhere in 5 or 6 minuets.

This is why I say ICE will be around for a while. Just in lower volumes, and some marginal use case (muscle cars for example) will cease to exist until automakers innovate electric versions of them.

 

[K4fxd]

I was never talking about zero emission. I simply wondered about train style power plants running cars. In other words a hybrid.

A gas or diesel engine turning a generator powering the wheels.

By the way, BEV's are not zero emission.

 

[martinjlm]

I was never talking about zero emission. I simply wondered about train style power plants running cars. In other words a hybrid.

A gas or diesel engine turning a generator powering the wheels.

I thought I addressed that in post #1474. But anyway…

You are not saying zero emissions, but the automakers that are building the cars are saying exactly that. And they know how to do it. So, unless there is a better idea for how to cost effectively produce zero emissions vehicles, there’s no audience for different forms of power generation. They already know how to do what you are suggesting (hybrids, plug-in hybrids, extended range electric vehicles) and they are walking away from those solutions towards BEVs and in some cases, FCEV.

By the way, BEV's are not zero emission.

You really don’t want to start the BEV aren’t zero emissions argument with me. I study this stuff every day. Start with the fact that when EPA, NHTSA, and state regulators say zero emissions, they are talking zero tailpipe emissions. Go! Please come with data because I sure as hell will and it’ll be fun.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Fun fact diesel is the most efficient form of fuel. It Carrie’s 38 kWh of energy, which is 27 times that if ion batteries. Who knew

 

[K4fxd]

they are talking zero tailpipe emissions.

Ok. So it ok to have emissions as long as it is not from the vehicle itself. Gotcha.

You are not saying zero emissions, but the automakers that are building the cars are saying exactly that.

You can say the sky is purple, don't make it so.

Didn't a former administration pack GM with radical green agenda people?
This is all top down.
IF the car companies rolled out BEV's at a rate that infrastructure and technology could keep up with, I'm sure they would get adopted by many. Fix all the someday's SK47 keeps bringing up. Then phase out ICE if demand slows.

Mandates and deadlines are not needed if it really is a better mousetrap.

The world will not end if we use gasoline and diesel for the next 100 years. By then something better than batteries will come along.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Ok. So it ok to have emissions as long as it is not from the vehicle itself. Gotcha.


You can say the sky is purple, don't make it so.

Didn't a former administration pack GM with radical green agenda people?
This is all top down.
IF the car companies rolled out BEV's at a rate that infrastructure and technology could keep up with, I'm sure they would get adopted by many. Fix all the someday's SK47 keeps bringing up. Then phase out ICE if demand slows.

Mandates and deadlines are not needed if it really is a better mousetrap.

The world will not end if we use gasoline and diesel for the next 100 years. By then something better than batteries will come along.

You know they could have made E85 out of sugarcane instead of corn. Sugarcane is so abundant in Latin American countries. A very cheap crop and The cleanest form of in tank fuel. But they chose not to. Why? Because that means people would still have freedom of movement. Electric cars are going to bring a new form of control over people and travel unheard of. There are people still thinking that governments along with power plants won’t collude to control your ability to charge your vehicle/travel if they don’t like something you say. Those same people will advocate for it because you know muy environment.

 

[K4fxd]

You know they could have made E85 out of sugarcane instead of corn. Sugarcane is so abundant in Latin American countries. A very cheap crop and The cleanest form of in tank fuel. But they chose not to. Why? Because that means people would still have freedom of movement. Electric cars are going to bring a new form of control over people and travel unheard of. There are people still thinking that governments along with power plants won’t collude to control your ability to charge your vehicle/travel if they don’t like something you say. Those same people will advocate for it because you know muy environment.

You conspiracy theorist you.

Was it AL Gore who wrote a book describing the green dream. Everyone would live whithin 50 miles of each coast. Stay in high rises and use public transportation.

It was stated the center of the country would be turned into a giant national park.

 

[AZlb5.0]

You conspiracy theorist you.

Was it AL Gore who wrote a book describing the green dream. Everyone would live whithin 50 miles of each coast. Stay in high rises and use public transportation.

It was stated the center of the country would be turned into a giant national park.

Wait what???? The government controlling even where we live and how far we can travel? Do you need my tinfoil hat, oh wait everything we talk about has come to fruition.

 

[jtmat]

@Gregs24 gets upset like an over emotional effeminate male when people ignore him.

The people’s opinion of me who matter

My father
My wife
My kids

@Gregs24 you missed the list.

ROFL

But you responded.... when you don't care, you don't respond.

Many of your posts are drivel. He wasn't wrong. You should own that and keep it moving.

 

[AZlb5.0]

ROFL

But you responded.... when you don't care, you don't respond.

Many of your posts are drivel. He wasn't wrong. You should own that and keep it moving.

Oh wait another non important person trying to make me feel bad. Let me check my GA* meter.

just as I thought.
Maybe check that list you quoted and see if you made the cut too.

 

[martinjlm]

You know they could have made E85 out of sugarcane instead of corn. Sugarcane is so abundant in Latin American countries. A very cheap crop and The cleanest form of in tank fuel. But they chose not to.

This part is true. Brazil in particular, is one of the larger automotive markets and if you are not producing vehicles that run on sugarcane based E100, you are not selling vehicles. Know what my team is studying for Brazil now? Timing and supply base requirements to produce electric vehicles. Why? Even though E100 has the cleanest emissions of known internal combustion powertrains, combustion still = emissions and that ain’t zero.

Why? Because that means people would still have freedom of movement. Electric cars are going to bring a new form of control over people and travel unheard of. There are people still thinking that governments along with power plants won’t collude to control your ability to charge your vehicle/travel if they don’t like something you say. Those same people will advocate for it because you know muy environment.

Sorry…gotta say it..this is just straight up whackado. So whatever this larger conspiracy is it reaches through several of the 50 states, the Federal Government, GM leadership as a puppet of the Federal Government and now the entire economy of Brazil. Ok.

 

[AZlb5.0]

This part is true. Brazil in particular, is one of the larger automotive markets and if you are not producing vehicles that run on sugarcane based E100, you are not selling vehicles. Know what my team is studying for Brazil now? Timing and supply base requirements to produce electric vehicles. Why? Even though E100 has the cleanest emissions of known internal combustion powertrains, combustion still = emissions and that ain’t zero.
Sorry…gotta say it..this is just straight up whackado. So whatever this larger conspiracy is it reaches through several of the 50 states, the Federal Government, GM leadership as a puppet of the Federal Government and now the entire economy of Brazil. Ok.

Af for the bold I think that E100/85 is the way to go moving forward. Again comparatively to let’s say gasoline or diesel the impact on the environment is minuscule. I think it would be a great idea moving forward but oil still makes way too many people money all over the world . Did you know that Saudi Arabia is contemplating moving away from the dollar? If they do that it wouldn’t be a good thing for us. Why I think that moving away from oil and going to a form of E would be the best thing for the Americas all together. Then move from coal to nuclear power plants and upgrade the existing electrical grid to support an uptic in EV/BEV vehicles. If we did that the Americas would be the lowest emissions producing continents world wide. All ICE vehicles could run on E with small conversions to fuel systems.

As to the second part of your post, I don’t trust governments period. While not on the subject at hand COVID was a great example of why not to trust governments to mention many others period. But that’s a different debate for a different day.

 

[Gregs24]

@Gregs24 gets upset like an over emotional effeminate male when people ignore him.

The people’s opinion of me who matter

My father
My wife
My kids

@Gregs24 you missed the list.

So still no answer but just childish insults from a person who thinks it is big to suggest somebody is 'effeminate'. Wow - misogyny at it's best. Grow up and answer my question!

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