GM is pulling back on EVs

[Burkey]

Then when it actually started warming they called it global warming. Then when it didn't warm as fast as they predicted they called it climate change.

Then wacko's like Gore and company and I call BS on it all especially since the earth has warmed and cooled several times since it was formed.

Ahh yes, the old “it’s happened before so humans can’t be causing it” argument.

Therefore, because bushfires have started by natural means for millions of years before humans arrived, humans can’t be the cause….

What would you call it when the planet starts warming?

What would you call the effects of a warming planet when it reaches a point that it starts altering weather patterns?

Sponsored

 

[sk47]

My comment wasn’t intended as a put-down. It was the observation that a person who thinks that most people lack integrity, is most likely someone who lacks integrity themselves.

Put differently, from my perspective, there’s no amount of money that can buy my integrity. Why should I think that most people are THAT different from me?

Yeah sure, there are some people who can be bought and sold, but if you think that represents the majority, that says more about you than it does about them.

To be clear, for the “corruption” hypothesis to work, you’d literally have to be buying nearly every research scientist on the planet, along with the people involved in the peer-review process. You’re talking 100’s of thousands of people, some of them who probably hold traditionally conservative views. unless of course you believe that there’s almost nobody in science who votes red?

You‘re also ignoring that research will continue regardless of the findings. We don’t suddenly stop measuring the planet and its inhabitants if global warming turns out to be a hoax. Quite the opposite. The new line of questioning would be “how did we get it so wrong? We need to do MORE research”.

Hello; Interesting. First thing is when you say someone lacks integrity that actually is a put down.
Next thing is I was one among thousands of public school teachers in Kentucky. Over the decades the schools changed to the point where the rules-procedures for teaching, grading and pass -fail were known to be seriously flawed. Effective discipline measures were gradually taken away so disruptions were the norm. Got to the point we could not count obvious wrong answers or poor grammar against a student. We were told to ignore all negative aspects of a students work and to find some positive bit and only praise that part.
That was the situation in 2004 at least. Thing is we teachers knew better but had no say so. The progressive rules were handed down from above. Of course there was the embedded social promotion which passed failing students along year to year resulting in high school graduates who are illiterate.

Again we got a good enough examples of how top tier medical scientists forsook their do no harm obligations and went along to get along. Most had to know what was happening during the covid lockdowns, mandates and denial of long understood principals such as natural immunity.
Do climate scientists take any sort of oath the way medical scientists are asked to do? Never hear of such myself.

 

[K4fxd]

You should be on a debate team. Lots of miss direction. Brush fires???

The point is even if we started reducing the atmospheric concentration of Co2 the earth would continue to warm. This would continue till whatever causes it to reverse and cool.

Going back to the Jurassic; If you think Co2 is the main cause of warming it will take Jurassic levels to cause a 20F degree avg warming of the planet. We will forget about the extra water vapor layer in the stratosphere at that time for arguments sake.

 

[sk47]

Ahh yes, the old “it’s happened before so humans can’t be causing it” argument.

Therefore, because bushfires have started by natural means for millions of years before humans arrived, humans can’t be the cause….

What would you call it when the planet starts warming?

What would you call the effects of a warming planet when it reaches a point that it starts altering weather patterns?

Hello; Such an odd way to look at the past. Point is the changes in climate happened before people were around in many cases. So natural forces can still cause climate changes and did cause those climate changes.

People come along and had modest populations for a very long time and the climate changed during that time. I just finished watching the first episode of a PBS video about Neanderthals. One of the scientists claimed that the Neanderthals were around during the ice ages and they survived during the ice advances and during the interglacial periods. He also stated some of those climate changes only took ten years or so. ( I question that part myself). The video was made back in 2018 so perhaps before current thinking. Point being if that scientist was anywhere near correct, that the Neanderthals endured very rapid weather /climate changes.

More to the point about modern industrial times. We humans are adding a layer of change to most all planetary systems. How thick that layer may be is one question. No doubt we are polluting the water and the air. Plenty of examples of that. I contend some human activities are worse and more pressing than climate change. Many will become dire well before warming is a major issue.
On that track lets consider what the Gree energy+ EV true believers are willing to do. That being to get the rare raw materials for the EV's and green energy they seem to be willing to add greatly to the polluting of the planet.

A thing is I can recall how bad cars were back in the 1950's. Road tubes, leaded gas, asbestos brake and clutch linings, cars becoming oil burners before 100 K miles. Coal fired power plants without scrubbers. Every town had an incinerator and a town dump. Things are so very much better on all fronts now. Cars pollute so very much less. Coal plants have scrubbers and other such at least in the USA. Lots of coal plants converted to natural gas to be very much cleaner, but even that is now not enough.
We have to be able to live and get along day to day. Just being alive requires an impact on the environment to have food, housing and energy to be warm and cool. There is no ultimate solution for this.
The EV's and Green Energy schemes will not save us from having to deal with problems. Likely will wind up the premature push to EV's and Green energy plans will be a "cure " worse than the problem. They are being pushed too fast and are not ready to handle the loads.

 

[Gregs24]

Common Arguments Against Climate Science | GEOG/EME 432: Energy Policy (psu.edu)

Arguments from Global Warming Skeptics and what the science really says (skepticalscience.com)

It's just so predictable. Ignore the idiots - don't give them the time of day.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

No one believed the Covid Wuhan lab leak theory – then the world changed its tune (yahoo.com)

"An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, in February 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security laboratory.

The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins, of the US National Institutes of Health, said that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.

Sir Jeremy warned that research in Wuhan was like the “Wild West”, with experiments carried out at worrying biosecurity levels.

But Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, argued that further debate on the subject could damage “international harmony”. The comment would come to typify why it has been so difficult to get to the bottom of the origins of Covid.

As Matt Hancock’s original biography drafts show, the world was terrified of upsetting China.

Over the next few months, scientists did what they could to steer investigations away from a laboratory leak, pushing journals to publish letters and papers that dismissed concerns as “conspiracy theories”.

Only in the US was the possibility being seriously considered, where Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, argued there was “enormous evidence” that the virus had leaked from Wuhan.

In May 2020, US intelligence discovered there had been an emergency shutdown at WIV in October 2019, coupled with a suspicious fall in mobile phone activity.

But the political gulf between the Trump administration and most scientists led to the allegations being disparaged as anti-Chinese racism."
.........

"By that time, a collective of virologists and hackers had also found evidence showing that Wuhan scientists had been tweaking bat coronaviruses to make them more deadly - and doing so with funding from the US government.

In 2010, WIV embarked on “gain of function experiments” to increase the infectiousness of Sars coronavirus in humans. By 2015, Wuhan scientists had created a highly infectious chimeric virus that targeted the human upper respiratory tract.

In 2018 and 2019, grants from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US showed that Dr Zhengli had applied to work on “virus infection experiments in humanised mice” using Sars coronaviruses - to find out what changes could lead to a spillover event into humans.

As Harvard scientist Alina Chan told MPs at the House of Commons science and technology select committee: “You find these scientists who said in early 2018: ‘I’m going to put horns on horses,’ and at the end of 2019 a unicorn turns up in Wuhan city.”

Freedom of Information requests also revealed that under the US-China Predict project, Wuhan researchers collected bat coronaviruses from China and south-east Asia. These were sent to various laboratories hundreds of miles away for “sequencing”, “archiving”, “analysis” and “manipulation”.

WIV had collected more than 220 Sars-related coronaviruses, at least 100 of which were never made public. Members of staff were also photographed wearing inadequate levels of personal protective equipment while handing bats.

But to date, Beijing has failed to disclose much of the work that was happening and removed a database of viral sequences shortly before the pandemic erupted."

..........

"By the summer of 2021, US intelligence had also discovered that three researchers at WIV had sought treatment at a hospital after falling ill in November 2019 - weeks before China told the world about Covid.

Then in August 2021, the head of the WHO’s pandemic origins investigation made the bombshell admission that he had been pressured into ruling out a laboratory leak to avoid arguments with China.
..........

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the WHO, was forced to admit that a laboratory leak had been ruled out prematurely and set up a new inquiry to examine the origins of the pandemic.

More than 18 months on, that inquiry has gone nowhere, with members complaining they have been stonewalled by China. In response, Beijing claims the inquiries are politically motivated and has even suggested the pandemic may have begun in the US."
........

"And last week Christopher Wray, director of the FBI, said that the bureau believes Covid-19 most likely originated in a Chinese laboratory. A US energy department report released in February also came to the same conclusion.

A US House of Representatives sub-committee hearing on the pandemic origins opened on Wednesday in the latest attempt to get to the truth.

Yet China continues to dig in its heels and, without access to its laboratories and records, investigations are now at an impasse.

Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, believes that if any evidence existed, it has likely now been destroyed."

If this is true, it is disgraceful. These so-called scientists were either naive, incompetent, cowards or corrupt, or all of the above; take your pick. I thought science was above such nonsense. So now we are to believe everything they say about the environment. I don't think so. Let the sheep go baahhhhhh.

 

[sk47]

No one believed the Covid Wuhan lab leak theory – then the world changed its tune (yahoo.com)

"An email from Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, in February 2020 said that “a likely explanation” was that Covid had rapidly evolved from a Sars-like virus inside human tissue in a low-security laboratory.

The email, to Dr Anthony Fauci and Dr Francis Collins, of the US National Institutes of Health, said that such evolution may have “accidentally created a virus primed for rapid transmission between humans”.

Sir Jeremy warned that research in Wuhan was like the “Wild West”, with experiments carried out at worrying biosecurity levels.

But Dr Collins, the former director of the US National Institutes of Health, argued that further debate on the subject could damage “international harmony”. The comment would come to typify why it has been so difficult to get to the bottom of the origins of Covid.

As Matt Hancock’s original biography drafts show, the world was terrified of upsetting China.

Over the next few months, scientists did what they could to steer investigations away from a laboratory leak, pushing journals to publish letters and papers that dismissed concerns as “conspiracy theories”.

Only in the US was the possibility being seriously considered, where Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, argued there was “enormous evidence” that the virus had leaked from Wuhan.

In May 2020, US intelligence discovered there had been an emergency shutdown at WIV in October 2019, coupled with a suspicious fall in mobile phone activity.

But the political gulf between the Trump administration and most scientists led to the allegations being disparaged as anti-Chinese racism."
.........

"By that time, a collective of virologists and hackers had also found evidence showing that Wuhan scientists had been tweaking bat coronaviruses to make them more deadly - and doing so with funding from the US government.

In 2010, WIV embarked on “gain of function experiments” to increase the infectiousness of Sars coronavirus in humans. By 2015, Wuhan scientists had created a highly infectious chimeric virus that targeted the human upper respiratory tract.

In 2018 and 2019, grants from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US showed that Dr Zhengli had applied to work on “virus infection experiments in humanised mice” using Sars coronaviruses - to find out what changes could lead to a spillover event into humans.

As Harvard scientist Alina Chan told MPs at the House of Commons science and technology select committee: “You find these scientists who said in early 2018: ‘I’m going to put horns on horses,’ and at the end of 2019 a unicorn turns up in Wuhan city.”

Freedom of Information requests also revealed that under the US-China Predict project, Wuhan researchers collected bat coronaviruses from China and south-east Asia. These were sent to various laboratories hundreds of miles away for “sequencing”, “archiving”, “analysis” and “manipulation”.

WIV had collected more than 220 Sars-related coronaviruses, at least 100 of which were never made public. Members of staff were also photographed wearing inadequate levels of personal protective equipment while handing bats.

But to date, Beijing has failed to disclose much of the work that was happening and removed a database of viral sequences shortly before the pandemic erupted."

..........

"By the summer of 2021, US intelligence had also discovered that three researchers at WIV had sought treatment at a hospital after falling ill in November 2019 - weeks before China told the world about Covid.

Then in August 2021, the head of the WHO’s pandemic origins investigation made the bombshell admission that he had been pressured into ruling out a laboratory leak to avoid arguments with China.
..........

Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the WHO, was forced to admit that a laboratory leak had been ruled out prematurely and set up a new inquiry to examine the origins of the pandemic.

More than 18 months on, that inquiry has gone nowhere, with members complaining they have been stonewalled by China. In response, Beijing claims the inquiries are politically motivated and has even suggested the pandemic may have begun in the US."
........

"And last week Christopher Wray, director of the FBI, said that the bureau believes Covid-19 most likely originated in a Chinese laboratory. A US energy department report released in February also came to the same conclusion.

A US House of Representatives sub-committee hearing on the pandemic origins opened on Wednesday in the latest attempt to get to the truth.

Yet China continues to dig in its heels and, without access to its laboratories and records, investigations are now at an impasse.

Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, believes that if any evidence existed, it has likely now been destroyed."

If this is true, it is disgraceful. These so-called scientists were either naive, incompetent, cowards or corrupt, or all of the above; take your pick. I thought science was above such nonsense. So now we are to believe everything they say about the environment. I don't think so. Let the sheep go baahhhhhh.

Hello; Powerful.

 

[AZlb5.0]

If China and India are not going to be persuaded to stop using coal and oil who are the two largest contributors of polluting emissions by far, why should the rest of the world stop?

 

[sk47]

If China and India are not going to be persuaded to stop using coal and oil who are the two largest contributors of polluting emissions by far, why should the rest of the world stop?

Hello; I do agree with the concept that as long as these two countries are using coal and oil in quantities, there is little point in a few places going to great lengths in the Green direction. Of course, several other countries will continue to use oil and coal as well.
That said I have a reason, sort of, for others to stop using coal and oil. That reason would be a personal philosophy. I have a personal philosophy of a sort about the environment. one of my goals has been to have a smaller impact. At least smaller than I can actually afford. I do not do without to the point of real discomfort, but try to conserve.
I can afford more than I use up day to day and year to year. Does it make much difference? likely not but makes me feel a little better. Guess the point again this is only a personal thing, not something I try to get others to do.

 

[Gregs24]

If China and India are not going to be persuaded to stop using coal and oil who are the two largest contributors of polluting emissions by far, why should the rest of the world stop?

Bit of a childish approach to a serious problem. In effect you are just repeating paragraph 5 of the link I posted.

Common Arguments Against Climate Science | GEOG/EME 432: Energy Policy (psu.edu)

Have you seen the investment in renewables by China and India? Have you noticed the biggest market for EV's in the world is China by a huge margin? There are a huge number of new carmakers in China focusing entirely on EV's.

But as has been said OVER and OVER again - this is not a single all for nothing solution. There are incremental improvements in multiple areas and countries appropriate to them over a period of time to reach the required targets.

 

[Burkey]

If China and India are not going to be persuaded to stop using coal and oil who are the two largest contributors of polluting emissions by far, why should the rest of the world stop?

Tell us more about how China and India are creating more than their fair share of the emissions.
Do you think the planet cares which country someone comes from when they emit CO2 or is it more likely that the emissions from each individual is what matters?
Under your model, we should just shift people around to make the numbers more favourable, without actually doing anything about the emissions. Right?

 

[sk47]

Have you seen the investment in renewables by China and India? Have you noticed the biggest market for EV's in the world is China by a huge margin? There are a huge number of new carmakers in China focusing entirely on EV's.

Hello; Yes the story seems to be that China is building and selling Green equipment and now EV's to the world while using coal and oil to power their economy to do so.
But we get it. Give China and India a break while pilling on the USA. Perhaps you have reason for the obvious dislike, but it does not make sense. Somehow it becomes OK to force drastic measures on the USA and perhaps even your own country, but leave China & India to continue to put into operation brand new coal fired power plants at the rate of two per month.

The real situation seems to be that as Burkey pointed out the climate knowns no borders. So, what happens in China and/or India matters as much as anywhere else. Thing is you true believers have not yet gotten a foothold of power to force mandates onto them.

 

[K4fxd]

Since Greg has the OP and most everyone who dissagres with him on ignore, he should not comment in this thread.

 

[sk47]

Since Greg has the OP and most everyone who dissagres with him on ignore, he should not comment in this thread.

Hello; Makes sense but I sort of see how it might work from his point of view. He may figure he should make proclamations without having to be bothered with hearing from those of us below him. The act of putting someone on ignore is an elitist sort of move anyway.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

Scientists dismissed Covid lab leak theory ‘as they feared ban on high-risk experiments’ (yahoo.com)

"Scientists dismissed the Covid-19 lab leak theory because they wanted to continue doing dangerous “gain-of-function” experiments to make viruses more deadly, a University of Oxford scholar has claimed.

Anton van der Merwe, a professor of molecular immunology, said that scientists involved in similar work as the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the laboratory implicated in the lab leak, were worried that a ban would be reimposed on such testing."
........

"Writing in the letters page of the Financial Times, he said: “The conflict arises from the fact the researchers perform, and want to continue to perform, precisely the sorts of experiment that make a laboratory leak much more likely."

“These include gain-of-function experiments, where they investigate whether they can enable, by genetic modification, an animal virus to infect human cells"
..........

“What is more likely is that these organisms will infect those doing the experiments, who could unwittingly spread the virus to the community, and possibly the whole world.”

Prof van der Merwe said there was “little justification for doing such experiments, except scientific curiosity and the desire for prestige”.
.........

"It’s pathetic,” he told The Telegraph. “You have this unholy and unethical alliance of scientists working together through highly influential publications effectively to kibosh what may be a scientific truth, and get it pushed into the realms of conspiracy theory."

“We need to be asking tough questions about the origins, otherwise who knows what virus will be released next through incompetence and ambition and how many more millions it will be killing."
........

Dr Robert Redfield, a virologist who led the CDC at the beginning of the pandemic, said: “I still believe today that the data indicates that the outbreak of Covid 19 was more likely the result of a lab leak than as a result of a natural spillover event.”
........
"The Telegraph also revealed this week that Matt Hancock, the former health secretary, believed a natural origin “didn’t fly”, but was told to water down remarks in his memoir by the cabinet office, for fear of upsetting China."

Sponsored