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GM is pulling back on EVs

sk47

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Hello; That EV related stocks and companies are doing poorly should come as no surprise to most. Well, anyone paying attention to real world facts about EV's and who do not just accept the hype. Many times the flaws surrounding EV's, the chargers and the ability of the grid to supply "green power" are treated as if they are merely coffee table debates.
Then a dose of stark reality pokes it's head clearly above the fray. Thes past days of frigid arctic temps being such a real event. Ford and other EV makers cutting back on production being another.
The zealots or "true believers" as they may be called will continue to argue in an odd way that somehow these things are not true by citing questionable sales figure statistics or by some form of lame suggestion such as diesel ICE also suffer in cold weather.

A thing being that the EV business models have the same sort of checks and balances as any other business eventually. When a company is or appears to be failing it's stock will take a hit. If they make a product which sells for less than it costs to make, then at some point they will go out of business.
That some even big players find themselves way out on an unsustainable limb currently might in part be due to the huge amounts of other people's money (aka taxes) being offered for the simple taking.
Big auto companies having sets of knife at their back forcing them figuratively toward the end of a gangplank. These knives being the mandates to sell only EV's by a future date. A future date close enough they have no choice but to tool up now as it takes many years to perhaps a decade to change over entire production lines, so they have to make expensive changes well before the two minute warning. I happen to think the companies who keep a foot in the ICE building lane will have a chance to survive.
On top of those big knives from mandates are sets of smaller blades such as those from the alphabet agencies with threats such as requirements for outlandish MPG requirements on an ICE fleet.

Last comment. I do not know if the various "green energy" and EV related new startups went into the game not caring if they failed. They may have hoped to succeed. Regardless there was this huge pile of monies (trillions) to tap into, so many did so. Again, other people monies going down the drain (perhaps rat hole reads better.)
 

gone_n_60

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I don't like to date myself (prefer women), but way way back in the US Mopeds became a thing, but at the time they were all made in Europe (France mostly I believe). I had a buddy that worked at a bicycle shop that sold Mopeds. I used to stop and and shoot the breeze with Skip off and on. As he was fixing a Moped in the back workshop he was telling me the European makers of Moped were flummoxed at the high rate of repair and damages Mopeds had in America as they didn't see that in Europe. Then he said eventually they were building the US market Mopeds with heavier bodies, more dummy proof motors, cheaper parts to keep repair cost down. It just turned out that people (mostly kids) in the US treat their stuff with less care and respect than folks in Europe do.

Our US auto market and our culture is very different than places like Norway, Denmark, Belgium etc. So our EV use and infrastructure problems are going to be uniquely American. Just because EV's work in Sweden doesn't translate to working in Wyoming or Montana with -14 degrees. If it's going to work it will need different approaches and better technology than I believe the current state is in (note just IMHO).

Meantime ...
1706022258155.png
 

sk47

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I don't like to date myself (prefer women), but way way back in the US Mopeds became a thing, but at the time they were all made in Europe (France mostly I believe). I had a buddy that worked at a bicycle shop that sold Mopeds. I used to stop and and shoot the breeze with Skip off and on. As he was fixing a Moped in the back workshop he was telling me the European makers of Moped were flummoxed at the high rate of repair and damages Mopeds had in America as they didn't see that in Europe. Then he said eventually they were building the US market Mopeds with heavier bodies, more dummy proof motors, cheaper parts to keep repair cost down. It just turned out that people (mostly kids) in the US treat their stuff with less care and respect than folks in Europe do.

Our US auto market and our culture is very different than places like Norway, Denmark, Belgium etc. So our EV use and infrastructure problems are going to be uniquely American. Just because EV's work in Sweden doesn't translate to working in Wyoming or Montana with -14 degrees. If it's going to work it will need different approaches and better technology than I believe the current state is in (note just IMHO).

Meantime ...
1706022258155.png
Hello; I recall the mopeds during the late 1950's and early 1960's. I could not have one but knew other who did. I was not aware of the differences for USA models.

For some reason I have pictured the Nordic portions of Europe to have colder climate than the USA. I see the error in that idea with a little thought. Interesting how I tended to think Sweden has colder winters. Maybe the movies?

Could part of the difference be the generally greater distances many drive in the USA?
 

tripleyellowmustang

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/article-12996281/toyota-chairman-evs-market-share.html

EV SHOCK: Head of world's No1 automaker Toyota says battery EVs will never account for more than 3 in 10 vehicles sold - as 'customers not regulations or politics will decide' fate
  • Grandson of Toyota founder said that EVs will only have minority of the market
  • The executive emphasized Toyota is investing in hybrids and fuel cell cars too
“Toyota chairman Akio Toyoda predicts battery electric vehicles will only ever capture 30 percent of the car market.

Hybrids, hydrogen fuel cell and gas-powered combustion engine cars will take the rest,
he said during a press conference in Japan this month.”

“The chairman suggested that engine cars will 'definitely remain' and that the market should be determined by customers and not regulations or politics.”
 
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Vlad Soare

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Could part of the difference be the generally greater distances many drive in the USA?
Greater distances are certainly one point, but there's also a cultural difference as well. Most European countries are essentially socialist, and this socialist bias gets more and more extreme as you go further to the north. Sacrificing the needs of the individual for the good of the nation (or planet, in this case) is an idea that Europeans have a general tendency to accept, and this tendency is much stronger in the north. If the government says, "electric cars are good, gas is bad", then people will buy electric cars, and if this requires changes to their daily routine, so be it. In northern countries what the government says, goes. Couple that with astronomical taxes on new gas vehicles, which only a handful of people can afford, and you will get a lot of EVs on the streets.
 
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K4fxd

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Most European countries are essentially socialist, and this socialist bias gets more and more extreme as you go further to the north. Sacrificing the needs of the individual for the good of the nation (or planet, in this case) is an idea that Europeans have a general tendency to accept, and this tendency is much stronger in the north.
Man are "they" pushing hard for us Americans to become this. So far the independent self sufficient people are in the majority. However "they" are starting to win the kids.
 

Gregs24

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Greater distances are certainly one point, but there's also a cultural difference as well. Most European countries are essentially socialist, and this socialist bias gets more and more extreme as you go further to the north. Sacrificing the needs of the individual for the good of the nation (or planet, in this case) is an idea that Europeans have a general tendency to accept, and this tendency is much stronger in the north. If the government says, "electric cars are good, gas is bad", then people will buy electric cars, and if this requires changes to their daily routine, so be it. In northern countries what the government says, goes. Couple that with astronomical taxes on new gas vehicles, which only a handful of people can afford, and you will get a lot of EVs on the streets.
More political ramblings - yawn
 

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sk47

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In your misguided and uninformed opinion ........

Do you understand what 'No politics' means on this forum!
Hello; And thus, we have the cubby hole such discussions can be limited to. Most anything, however tenuous, can is some way linked to some aspect of what can be called politics. What I took from Vlad's post was a description of the differences in that part of the world which allows top-down edicts to take hold and have populations subdued.
You calling such a post politics and implying he or others should not be allowed to express such opinions does not make it so. Many of us are very familiar with you self-expressed feeling of superiority. We read and recall what you wrote during the pandemic of your disgust that we will simply do as we are told by our "betters". That you include yourself among those "betters" has also been apparent for some time.

One other note. When one of us makes points which devastate your stances the retort is often to call "politics" rather than engage in a useful response. You have many of us active in this and other threads on ignore and only emerge on occasion to put us down.
 

Vlad Soare

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Do you understand what 'No politics' means on this forum!
I do. But I don't think you understand what 'politics' means. Calling a post political just because you happen to disagree with it doesn't necessarily make it so.
Feel free to report it if you wish.
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