Gen 2 5.2L - Does it push more HP? Truth or rumor?

[Krman68]

I thought I read an article or post recently from someone who had stats showing that the Gen 2 Voodoo motrs were pushing out more horsepower than the Gen 1’s. I recall seeing the HP to the wheels on the Gen1’s at around 467 on avg and the Gen2’s at 490+ HP on average

Any truth to this ?

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[JR369]

Here we go again...

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...oo-is-close-to-600hp-instead-of-526hp.152360/

 

[Krman68]

Sorry about that - I didn’t see that prior thread !

I’ll let you know what mine pulls When I get it back. I am getting a 2020 replacement motor installed by Ford

 

[lenFeb]

I don't know about HP increase in gen2 motor.
I can comment based on my experience driving 18'(gen1) and 19'(gen2).
I noticed that 19' is not as slow at low RPM as 18' was. I had a conversation with couple of knowledgeable people about this. They believe that among other upgrades for MY19 Ford upgraded ECU. Please note, this is unconfirmed and is only my observations. I'd like to know if anyone else noticed this.

 

[JAJ]

I don't know about HP increase in gen2 motor.
I can comment based on my experience driving 18'(gen1) and 19'(gen2).
I noticed that 19' is not as slow at low RPM as 18' was. I had a conversation with couple of knowledgeable people about this. They believe that among other upgrades for MY19 Ford upgraded ECU. Please note, this is unconfirmed and is only my observations. I'd like to know if anyone else noticed this.

I've made the point before that there's no such thing as a "gen 2" Voodoo. Not that there haven't been changes - three different blocks, two different heads, pistons, bearings, valves, etc have all changed at least once. But there's no cutoff between one setup and another, they were running changes that happened whenever the factory felt it convenient. I'd speculate that most of the changes were intended to reduce manufacturing costs without reducing performance.

When it comes to power, the only variables that matter are cam profile, intake manifold-throttle body-filter, exhaust manifold and pipes, and compression ratio. None of those things changed from MY 2015 to MY 2020. The ECU programming has undoubtedly changed, though. The fuel system was changed at one point, so the ECU needed to be programmed to run with the new setup. Along the way, there may have been changes to comply with tighter emissions and so on.

So, will a late Voodoo make more power than an earlier one? Maybe, if the calibration enables it, but keep in mind that Ford had no incentive to make it more powerful. The specs are the same from start to finish, so expect the output to be pretty much unchanged.

 

[JR369]

I've made the point before that there's no such thing as a "gen 2" Voodoo. Not that there haven't been changes - three different blocks, two different heads, pistons, bearings, valves, etc have all changed at least once. But there's no cutoff between one setup and another, they were running changes that happened whenever the factory felt it convenient. I'd speculate that most of the changes were intended to reduce manufacturing costs without reducing performance.

When it comes to power, the only variables that matter are cam profile, intake manifold-throttle body-filter, exhaust manifold and pipes, and compression ratio. None of those things changed from MY 2015 to MY 2020. The ECU programming has undoubtedly changed, though. The fuel system was changed at one point, so the ECU needed to be programmed to run with the new setup. Along the way, there may have been changes to comply with tighter emissions and so on.

So, will a late Voodoo make more power than an earlier one? Maybe, if the calibration enables it, but keep in mind that Ford had no incentive to make it more powerful. The specs are the same from start to finish, so expect the output to be pretty much unchanged.

This is true. Mid year 18 production saw a running change to different ring and piston packs. Probably an attempt to address oil usage more so than cutting costs imo.

 

[460Fred]

I thought I read an article or post recently from someone who had stats showing that the Gen 2 Voodoo motrs were pushing out more horsepower than the Gen 1’s. I recall seeing the HP to the wheels on the Gen1’s at around 467 on avg and the Gen2’s at 490+ HP on average

Any truth to this ?

By the time you get your new motor broken in you’re not going to be able to tell any difference. I mean even if you get a 23HP hit, you won’t feel it.

 

[lenFeb]

I've made the point before that there's no such thing as a "gen 2" Voodoo. Not that there haven't been changes - three different blocks, two different heads, pistons, bearings, valves, etc have all changed at least once. But there's no cutoff between one setup and another, they were running changes that happened whenever the factory felt it convenient. I'd speculate that most of the changes were intended to reduce manufacturing costs without reducing performance.

When it comes to power, the only variables that matter are cam profile, intake manifold-throttle body-filter, exhaust manifold and pipes, and compression ratio. None of those things changed from MY 2015 to MY 2020. The ECU programming has undoubtedly changed, though. The fuel system was changed at one point, so the ECU needed to be programmed to run with the new setup. Along the way, there may have been changes to comply with tighter emissions and so on.

So, will a late Voodoo make more power than an earlier one? Maybe, if the calibration enables it, but keep in mind that Ford had no incentive to make it more powerful. The specs are the same from start to finish, so expect the output to be pretty much unchanged.

I agree, Ford never announced there is any generations of Voodoo. I just go with the name as almost everybody use it.
My point however was not about HP. I'm interested if anybody else noticed difference between MY19 GT350 and earlier models in regards of lack of torque in low RPM. IMO Ford addressed it with ECU change. If so, MY15-18 can upgrade they ECUs as well and enjoy the car even better.

 

[Caballus]

Prior to MY19 (and replacements starting in 2018), the GT350 and GT350R used different engines. As of MY19, the GT350 uses the GT350R engine. HP is officially rated the same, though there are differences between early GT350 and GT350R engines.

 

[Zuess765]

I agree with lenFeb in that I have a 2020 now that I traded in my 2018 for, and the biggest noticeable difference is that my 2020 is much faster at lower RPM and it accelerates through the RPM range in a much smoother freer kind of way, its almost night and day difference vs. my 2018. Also, my 2020 low RPM piston slap vibration noise is much less than my 2018. Whether these very noticeable differences translates to the Gen 2 having more Horsepower, hard to know that without dynos that prove it.

 

[JAJ]

I agree with lenFeb in that I have a 2020 now that I traded in my 2018 for, and the biggest noticeable difference is that my 2020 is much faster at lower RPM and it accelerates through the RPM range in a much smoother freer kind of way, its almost night and day difference vs. my 2018. Also, my 2020 low RPM piston slap vibration noise is much less than my 2018. Whether these very noticeable differences translates to the Gen 2 having more Horsepower, hard to know that without dynos that prove it.

Good to hear they've found more low end torque. My 2016 got a bunch more low-end torque when I updated the ECU firmware in 2018 (with a Ford OEM calibration, not aftermarket). That update also moved the piston slap around as well, making it less obtrusive when the engine is cold. Thing was, the stated reason for the update was to prevent the engine going into limp mode if one of the exhaust sound valves got stuck, so the improvements in drivability were a bonus.

 

[Angrey]

This question (among others) keeps coming up because potential new buyers want to believe one "version" or generation is better or more desirable than another (and owners who have one or the other also want some sort of confirmation bias to feel better about their purchase/decision).

There's a natural tendency (and understandably) to equate newer "versions" with improvement (the logic goes, why would they change something if it weren't "better").

As JAJ pointed out, MOST of the changes made to yearly models has more to do with production efficiencies and marketing gimmicks (I recently read someone say "The 19+ GT350's are closer to the R model than the 18 and below models were to those R models."....well yeah, when you slap Cup2's on a car and put equal rubber on them, it tends to narrow the gap.....which is the same gimmick Ford played with the PP2 vs GT350, by putting the Cup2's on the car from the dealer.)

I've also seen this play out in the reliability/engine/oil consumption issues. One would expect/hope that Ford is trying to resolve/improve upon the issue. But that's naive. Ford is going to be very calculating with resolving issues so as NOT to open themselves up to recall and class action suit. (basically, if you "fix" something, you kina admit the previous unfixed models remain a problem). Also, there's obscure aspects at play. If you took an alternator and made and sold it for 10 years, which year would you expect to have the most issues in year 10? That's right, year 1, it's simply been around and under use longer to accumulate more failures and defects. Also, Ford moved the goal posts with respect to oil consumption. When these cars first came out, they'd replace the motor for consumption at the drop of a hat. Now they're much more concerning about which motors are out of "tolerance" with respect to consumption. Does that mean the new motors consume less or they resolved the issue? Unlikely. It just means now they're willing to accept and justify a quart loss over a shorter mileage as within acceptable performance.

 

[Hack]

This is true. Mid year 18 production saw a running change to different ring and piston packs. Probably an attempt to address oil usage more so than cutting costs imo.

Right. And my guess would be that they were trying to avoid the problems where the early rings could get deformed during installation and/or during certain types of usage (my belief is continuous high RPM no/low load is hard on the rings and can deform those early design rings).

So if I had to guess I would think the later rings are thicker, have slightly more tension, and probably the engine makes a little less power with them due to there being more internal friction. I'm not talking much. Basically almost the same.

It's very interesting to hear those that believe the later engines have more torque at lower RPMs. I always felt that in my 2016 the characteristics of the engine were such that stepping on it at low RPM was very hard on the engine. Like the pistons weren't really meant to hold up to it. So I used to religiously avoid stepping on it at any time when RPMs were under about 3,000. I don't know what would have happened if I had continually lugged the engine by stepping on it at lower RPM. Would I have ended up with the piston slap that so many complain about? Maybe even rapid oil consumption? Not sure. I wasn't going to try it and find out.

I enjoy this speculation. It's too bad we don't have hard data from Ford. Maybe once all the warranties are up we will learn more. I'd certainly love to know as much about the Voodoo as possible, because I really would like to own one again someday.

 

[lenFeb]

I enjoy this speculation. It's too bad we don't have hard data from Ford. Maybe once all the warranties are up we will learn more. I'd certainly love to know as much about the Voodoo as possible, because I really would like to own one again someday.

Yes, it's just a speculation. I never saw this been discussed. I brought it up here and glad that others noticed this too and am not imagine things. Ford can be more transparent to end up a lot of such speculations.

 

[newmoon]

Might be coincidence but the Gen IIs do seem to trap a couple miles an hour faster that the Gen I in most reviews.

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