FRPP/Roush SC Question

[TorkN8R]

Nobody has gotten a fully drivable aftermarket tune yet. A few have gotten WOT, idle and some in between but the new platform is much more difficult then the past.

Many struggled with the 11-14 until FRPP released there kit and almost everybody used that calibration as there baseline for what tables to change and which direction.

While many will get there, its just not there yet. The Roush, FRPP and Whipple cal's are done by Ford engineers and are highly encrypted.

With what you just offered...did Ford Racing provide Whipple with access to the 2015 Mustang codes? I know that in 2014 when Ford and Whipple were partnered they would have. But Did that change when ford and Whipple went their seperate ways for 2015?

I for one do appreciate the honesty and candor in regards to the tune. Because I live in the republic of CA, I've been waiting and am still waiting for C.A.R.B. Certs for both Whipple and Roush. I know they are both pending and emanate.

I've also been concerned with haveing a tune that is very driveable. I'm not going to race this Mustang. It's just for my own play thing. That being said, Bill with CJ Pony resently installed the the FRPP/Roush SC and loves the fact that the tune is conservitive but also has spot on Driveablity.

That no doubt has to do with Ford being involved with unfettered access to the encryption. This may just have settled the issue for me on which SC to buy. Although I do like the ease of install and design of the Whipple over the Roush,
at this point it would seem like the Ford/Roush tune is a better fit for me.

There is one other piece of the equation for me that some may have over looked, or not. That is that the 2015 Shelby with the Coyote 5.0L is using the Roush TVS system with the same 627 HP numbers, with the option of 700 HP with no doubt a different pulley and tune.

If later down the road I want more HP, which I sure I will. I think that Ford Racing will have the other pulley and tune available. If not, VMP will be there to boost the numbers up. They basically use the same TVS system as Roush.

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[cbear50]

With what you just offered...did Ford Racing provide Whipple with access to the 2015 Mustang codes? I know that in 2014 when Ford and Whipple were partnered they would have. But Did that change when ford and Whipple went their seperate ways for 2015?

I for one do appreciate the honesty and candor in regards to the tune. Because I live in the republic of CA, I've been waiting and am still waiting for C.A.R.B. Certs for both Whipple and Roush. I know they are both pending and emanate.

I've also been concerned with haveing a tune that is very driveable. I'm not going to race this Mustang. It's just for my own play thing. That being said, Bill with CJ Pony resently installed the the FRPP/Roush SC and loves the fact that the tune is conservitive but also has spot on Driveablity.

That no doubt has to do with Ford being involved with unfettered access to the encryption. This may just have settled the issue for me on which SC to buy. Although I do like the ease of install and design of the Whipple over the Roush,
at this point it would seem like the Ford/Roush tune is a better fit for me.

There is one other piece of the equation for me that some may have over looked, or not. That is that the 2015 Shelby with the Coyote 5.0L is using the Roush TVS system with the same 627 HP numbers, with the option of 700 HP with no doubt a different pulley and tune.

If later down the road I want more HP, which I sure I will. I think that Ford Racing will have the other pulley and tune available. If not, VMP will be there to boost the numbers up. They basically use the same TVS system as Roush.

My exact reason for choosing the roush kit. I drive my car daily and wanted it to be dependable and have good street manners. I can tell you with 100percent accuracy my car drives just like a stock car until I push on the gas then it comes alive. However, I'm curious to how much more power a vmp tune could pull out of it and still remain civil.

 

[Whipple SC]

With what you just offered...did Ford Racing provide Whipple with access to the 2015 Mustang codes? I know that in 2014 when Ford and Whipple were partnered they would have. But Did that change when ford and Whipple went their seperate ways for 2015?

I for one do appreciate the honesty and candor in regards to the tune. Because I live in the republic of CA, I've been waiting and am still waiting for C.A.R.B. Certs for both Whipple and Roush. I know they are both pending and emanate.

I've also been concerned with haveing a tune that is very driveable. I'm not going to race this Mustang. It's just for my own play thing. That being said, Bill with CJ Pony resently installed the the FRPP/Roush SC and loves the fact that the tune is conservitive but also has spot on Driveablity.

That no doubt has to do with Ford being involved with unfettered access to the encryption. This may just have settled the issue for me on which SC to buy. Although I do like the ease of install and design of the Whipple over the Roush,
at this point it would seem like the Ford/Roush tune is a better fit for me.

There is one other piece of the equation for me that some may have over looked, or not. That is that the 2015 Shelby with the Coyote 5.0L is using the Roush TVS system with the same 627 HP numbers, with the option of 700 HP with no doubt a different pulley and tune.

If later down the road I want more HP, which I sure I will. I think that Ford Racing will have the other pulley and tune available. If not, VMP will be there to boost the numbers up. They basically use the same TVS system as Roush.

It's somewhat complexed to explain how the OEM's develop the cals but I can tell you that many contract with companies that do the full calibration and emission testing using Ford software and Ford incredible environmental labs.

We have used the same Ford engineer since we started our FRPP projects, therefore the 11-14 as well as the 05-10 all came from same place. The 15 Roush and Frpp is generated from the same place. Our calibration is the next level, same drivability but far more power, more forgiving for changes and less limits.

The cal is done in the same manner, same OEM tools and engineers. As we've said before we still work with FRPP and continue a great relationship.

Choosing a Roush kit or FRPP by thinking it's more drivable is simply poor information. If you want less power you can just change the pulley and slow it down but you get significantly more bang for the buck. The decision should be how much power now, how much later and what your budget is. That will lead you down the right path but drive ability is something we've got down, thus it's highly encrypted so our competition can't copy all the hard work and investment.

And what makes you think Shelby is using a TVS for 700hp ;);)

 

[Whipple SC]

My exact reason for choosing the roush kit. I drive my car daily and wanted it to be dependable and have good street manners. I can tell you with 100percent accuracy my car drives just like a stock car until I push on the gas then it comes alive. However, I'm curious to how much more power a vmp tune could pull out of it and still remain civil.

You can only make more power by changing cam timing, which increases cylinder pressure, or run more spark. No real Magic there. You could also turn cat protection mode off to hold leaner air fuels longer but you will melt these cats because they get to 1800 awfully fast.

Therefore to make more power, you need to increase the airflow, cool the air or lower pumping losses, not really a tune. But keep in mind if you change the tune you will lose 100% of what's there now.

 

[KenB]

Nobody has gotten a fully drivable aftermarket tune yet. A few have gotten WOT, idle and some in between but the new platform is much more difficult then the past.

Many struggled with the 11-14 until FRPP released there kit and almost everybody used that calibration as there baseline for what tables to change and which direction.

While many will get there, its just not there yet. The Roush, FRPP and Whipple cal's are done by Ford engineers and are highly encrypted.

Actually Lund Racing tuned the Lethal whipple car and it drives awesome. Ask me how I know. lol We have also tuned Kelly's VMP TVS car and it has already run a low 10 and drives well.

 

[SVTFreak]

Let us know how much you get out of the roush.

The new ones from vmp are more efficient. But on my 11 6M, with the roush kit, vmp 82mm and vmp tune, no other mods at all, it did 585 whp. The car was an absolute beast and fun to drive, got 18 mpg around town, 25-26 highway and I put 33k miles on it like that without a single issue.

 

[cbear50]

ken, it sounds like you guys are one of the few who have figured out tuning on this platform. Would you have any idea the kind of gains someone could expect by switching from the roush tune to a Lund tune? No pulley changes, injectors ,etc.. Just a more aggressive tune?

 

[KenB]

ken, it sounds like you guys are one of the few who have figured out tuning on this platform. Would you have any idea the kind of gains someone could expect by switching from the roush tune to a Lund tune? No pulley changes, injectors ,etc.. Just a more aggressive tune?

No I really couldn't even guess. The VMP car I tuned did not have the Roush file on it so I couldn't do a baseline run. In years past (11-14) the Roush tune was ultra conservative and just a tune picked them up quite a bit. But not sure how aggressive their 15 file is.

 

[TorkN8R]

It's somewhat complexed to explain how the OEM's develop the cals but I can tell you that many contract with companies that do the full calibration and emission testing using Ford software and Ford incredible environmental labs.

We have used the same Ford engineer since we started our FRPP projects, therefore the 11-14 as well as the 05-10 all came from same place. The 15 Roush and Frpp is generated from the same place. Our calibration is the next level, same drivability but far more power, more forgiving for changes and less limits.

The cal is done in the same manner, same OEM tools and engineers. As we've said before we still work with FRPP and continue a great relationship.

Choosing a Roush kit or FRPP by thinking it's more drivable is simply poor information. If you want less power you can just change the pulley and slow it down but you get significantly more bang for the buck. The decision should be how much power now, how much later and what your budget is. That will lead you down the right path but drive ability is something we've got down, thus it's highly encrypted so our competition can't copy all the hard work and investment.

And what makes you think Shelby is using a TVS for 700hp ;);)

It is of course cnojecture that they will be using the TVS to obtain 700 HP. I'm diffeneantly not in the know as you are in a postion to know. We are at least in agreement that the 627 HP on the Shelby GT is from the Ford Racing/Roush TVS system correct?

I am basing my assumption on the Shelby America site. My assumption was for the addtional 70+ HP, they were just adding boost and tuning accordingly. After re-reading the information on the site again, it does say that the option is for a SuperCharger that produces 700 HP.

Interesting! I went to the Shelby performance site and currently, yhey don't even offer the Ford/Roush SC, they only offer the Whipple for the 2015. So...more conjecture on my part but did you just slyly let me know that the 2015 Shelby GT w/ the 700 HP SC is the Whipple?

 

[Whipple SC]

It is of course cnojecture that they will be using the TVS to obtain 700 HP. I'm diffeneantly not in the know as you are in a postion to know. We are at least in agreement that the 627 HP on the Shelby GT is from the Ford Racing/Roush TVS system correct?

I am basing my assumption on the Shelby America site. My assumption was for the addtional 70+ HP, they were just adding boost and tuning accordingly. After re-reading the information on the site again, it does say that the option is for a SuperCharger that produces 700 HP.

Interesting! I went to the Shelby performance site and currently, yhey don't even offer the Ford/Roush SC, they only offer the Whipple for the 2015. So...more conjecture on my part but did you just slyly let me know that the 2015 Shelby GT w/ the 700 HP SC is the Whipple?

All I can say at this point is that there will be some promising announcements very soon.

FYI, the FRPP kit is not actually available yet. Its soon to be released, but as of now, only the Roush kit has been released.

 

[TorkN8R]

All I can say at this point is that there will be some promising announcements very soon.

FYI, the FRPP kit is not actually available yet. Its soon to be released, but as of now, only the Roush kit has been released.

Ok! Good to know. I'll hold tight and look forward to the good news. In regards to the FRPP, their site currently shows it available. Maybe you're referring to their CARB release?

In any event...as always...thanks for your help!

 

[KenB]

Just tuned another VMP TVS with great results. Who's next? Lol

 

[cbear50]

Just tuned another VMP TVS with great results. Who's next? Lol

I guess I am just placed my order through beefcake. Im placing my baby in your hands.:lol:

 

[TorkN8R]

I guess I am just placed my order through beefcake. Im placing my baby in your hands.:lol:

So correct me if I've got this wrong. You've installed a Roush SC with their conservative tune and now your getting a lets say more liberal tune from VMP through Beef Cake?

If so...looking forward to seeing those dyno numbers. :cheers:

 

[cbear50]

That is correct except I'm going with a Lund tune through beefcake.I got the dyno sheet for the roush tune and will dyno the Lund tune on the same dyno so it will be interesting to see the difference.

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