Formula 1 talk.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hello; Looks like Max did screw his team mate out of the 2nd place in the drivers' championship last week.

I don't think so. Leclerc gained 3 points on Perez today. If Max let him by in Brazil, Perez would have gained just 2 points.

Sponsored

 

[Bikeman315]

I don't think so. Leclerc gained 3 points on Perez today. If Max let him by in Brazil, Perez would have gained just 2 points.

That‘s right. Turned out it made no difference. Overall a decent race. I did really like the tributes to Seb. Wonder how long he will remain retired.

 

[Caballus]

Decided to join the bench racers club for a day--today only. So, hello fellow bench racers. Went back and looked at the Verstappen-Hamilton contact from Brazil.

Conclusion-racing incident. Kinda like a common no-fault car accident. Neither Verstappen nor Hamilton should have been penalized. In the end, the penalty was meaningless for Verstappen anyway.

Justification.
Passing driver is responsible for making a clean, safe pass. If he can't, he backs off.

Driver being passed does not need to make space until the passing car is clearly alongside.

Hamilton should have known Verstappen was coming alongside and taking the nose dive--maybe. Looked through Hamilton's dash cam and it's not obvious to me as a professional bench racer and forum pundit, but given Hamilton's experience and level...questionable.

Looked through Verstappen's dash cam, and it was obvious he was not going to make that turn even if additional room had been given. He tried to nudge between Hamilton and the apex and was tracking for the exit as if no car was next to him--maybe he expected Hamilton to back off completely?

Funny--Verstappen had just been told to take it easy for the first couple of laps, because his tires were cold. No slight on him; he must have felt he had a fleeting opportunity even with cold tires.

Looked up prima donna. Very familiar with the term, but it's become quite popular, so decided to dig a bit. Conclusion--of course. 20 teenagers (when they started) get paid mega-millions for being the best (or luckiest) in their field--before their brains are even fully developed. Of course, they are prima donnas, and will continue to be as long as fans and sponsors pay them to be.

Out of faux expertise. Back to being a typical know-nothing spectator.

 

[Timeless]

Hello; Looks like Max did screw his team mate out of the 2nd place in the drivers' championship last week. Not so sure why second place is important. 2nd is better than 3rd. 3rd is better than 4th and so on. But as someone said second is just the first loser.

I did not keep watching after the checkered flag to see how the MFG championship turned out. I guess RB is still 1st.

All you needed to see is how much it mattered in the interviews/team radio with Perez and LeClerc. If you came away with anything other than it matters a lot you were not paying attention.

 

[XeninWorX]

2022 season.

Verstappen sets the benchmark for most wins in a season.

Hamilton sets the benchmark for at least 1 win in every season of competition. This year being the only winless season.

As Michael Schumacher said, these aren’t records, they’re benchmarks.

 

[sk47]

All you needed to see is how much it mattered in the interviews/team radio with Perez and LeClerc. If you came away with anything other than it matters a lot you were not paying attention.

Hello; Did not watch the interviews. Only heard radio messages during the race. Fair enough. If it matters to these drivers then it matters, at least to them.
I think you may have taken my comment out of context. I wrote this - "Not so sure why second place is important. 2nd is better than 3rd. 3rd is better than 4th and so on. But as someone said second is just the first loser." Thought that comment contained a recognition that as you go down the line or driver placements, each driver who is ahead of the next lower feels better than the driver below. May be the driver in last place is the only one who comes away with no one to be better than.
To be clearer, these driver placings do not win any monies. The F1 manufacturers championship is the point of the race series. Positions in that portion of the series adds up to millions of dollars of prize monies for Mfg. points. A car has to place in the top ten positions of any particular race. Each such point is valuable.
But I get it. You will take exception to most anything I post. Some others are like you on this site. One member appears to follow my posts in different threads, often starting a campaign for others to put me on "ignore".

I guess drivers who come in in 2nd, 3rd, 4th place and so on can sort of use the placements in a drivers resume. Things are that I am firstly pretty sure the folks who matter when it comes to hiring an F1 driver have other ways to judge their value. Second it is so very often the case that the cars and not drivers' skills which determine the finishing positions during the races. Put the best drivers in some of the cars and they will still wind up at the bottom of finishing places race after race. Cars/teams need a competent driver to be sure, but the cars/teams themselves make the difference.

 

[Timeless]

I guess drivers who come in in 2nd, 3rd, 4th place and so on can sort of use the placements in a drivers resume. Things are that I am firstly pretty sure the folks who matter when it comes to hiring an F1 driver have other ways to judge their value. Second it is so very often the case that the cars and not drivers' skills which determine the finishing positions during the races. Put the best drivers in some of the cars and they will still wind up at the bottom of finishing places race after race. Cars/teams need a competent driver to be sure, but the cars/teams themselves make the difference.

Obviously if you put Max or Lewis in a Williams they are not going to win the championship...no one denies this. Has been this way throughout F1 history.

What they do have is that 1-3 tenths that makes the difference in winning a championship in a car capable of winning.

 

[sk47]

I don't think so. Leclerc gained 3 points on Perez today. If Max let him by in Brazil, Perez would have gained just 2 points.

Hello; Thanks for the heads up. That Max not following team orders did not make any difference. Got it.
I have not tried to dig into what the feud between Max and Perez may be based upon. Over time the nature of the sport pits team driver against each other. Every driver wants at least to beat the other driver in an identical car.

 

[Bikeman315]

2022 season.

Verstappen sets the benchmark for most wins in a season.

Hamilton sets the benchmark for at least 1 win in every season of competition. This year being the only winless season.

As Michael Schumacher said, these aren’t records, they’re benchmarks.

Well you could argue that Max’s season was due to Mercedes total failure with their 2022 car and Ferrari self destructing with a car capable of winning a championship. Not that I’d do that.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Of course, Max could've pulled a Checo and backed up Leclerc the same amount of time and Checo could've finished in front of Leclerc then.. But you know that requires being a team player. And while they may make no money coming in second, they could very well get some sort of bonus in their contract for doing that or securing a 1-2 for the team.

Vettel was in a 12 million dollar fight, and Aston screwed themselves out of it 12 million with horrible strategy yesterday all because of one place.

 

[sk47]

Of course, Max could've pulled a Checo and backed up Leclerc the same amount of time and Checo could've finished in front of Leclerc then.. But you know that requires being a team player. And while they may make no money coming in second, they could very well get some sort of bonus in their contract for doing that or securing a 1-2 for the team.

Vettel was in a 12 million dollar fight, and Aston screwed themselves out of it 12 million with horrible strategy yesterday all because of one place.

Hello; Mot sure of the what or why of extra bonus pay when a driver does something to help his team. May exist is some fashion, I do not know.
What I do know is drivers make big money. At least the top drivers. Found a convenient article about driver money. Must say I am surprised as last time I checked salaries the top drivers were making around 20 millions. Now it is several times that much.
I understand some will claim I just do not get it. But you pay me $60 millions and I will be happy to do extra to help the team. Heck, I will run in second place to my co-driver to block for him so he wins every time for a lot less than 60 mill.

EDIT
The 10 highest-paid F1 drivers from the 2022 have been named - salary & bonuses included (msn.com)

 

[sk47]

Obviously if you put Max or Lewis in a Williams they are not going to win the championship...no one denies this. Has been this way throughout F1 history.

What they do have is that 1-3 tenths that makes the difference in winning a championship in a car capable of winning.

Hello; Agreed. They also want a fast driver who does not wreck the cars too much. A driver who can hustle a car without breaking things or trying too many doomed moves and so on. Having a driver who can keep things on the road and also get that extra 1/10 or so out of the car is a gem.

EDIT- Had a discussion at my brothers place yesterday while watching football + basketball. (he holds the remote and switches back and forth. Asked him if somehow a sort of football or basketball IQ score is kept on players. Some players run fast or are strong but do not understand the game all that well. Say in a two-minute drill when time management is critical a player fails to step out of bounds when he/she could and tries for an extra yard and gets tackled in bounds. Not understanding the clock is worth more than an extra yard or two. Same for a block in the back on a kickoff return.
If I were recruiting players i would want a savvy player over some Duffus who might run a bit faster. Same for a driver. Some drivers can lay down quick laps but much of the time do some bonehead move and do not finish well.

 

[Timeless]

EDIT- Had a discussion at my brothers place yesterday while watching football + basketball. (he holds the remote and switches back and forth. Asked him if somehow a sort of football or basketball IQ score is kept on players. Some players run fast or are strong but do not understand the game all that well. Say in a two-minute drill when time management is critical a player fails to step out of bounds when he/she could and tries for an extra yard and gets tackled in bounds. Not understanding the clock is worth more than an extra yard or two. Same for a block in the back on a kickoff return.
If I were recruiting players i would want a savvy player over some Duffus who might run a bit faster. Same for a driver. Some drivers can lay down quick laps but much of the time do some bonehead move and do not finish well.

In football you have the luxury of 11 positions that can require a difference in athleticism and brain power....F1 only has one position in the car.

 

[sk47]

Hello; Really? this is what you come back with? What about those who jack the car and change tires during a pit stop? The folks sitting in front of the telemetry screens analyzing data or talking to the drivers? F1 is truly a team sport with a large team. Someone has to build the cars and the new bits they try out.
I get there some out there who want to reduce everything to a driver. Just is not the case.

 

[Timeless]

In football you have the luxury of 11 positions that can require a difference in athleticism and brain power....F1 only has one position in the car.

Hello; Really? this is what you come back with? What about those who jack the car and change tires during a pit stop? The folks sitting in front of the telemetry screens analyzing data or talking to the drivers? F1 is truly a team sport with a large team. Someone has to build the cars and the new bits they try out.
I get there some out there who want to reduce everything to a driver. Just is not the case.

Might want to re-read my post...check out the bold and underlined part.

Sponsored