Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[TheLion]

This thread among others that I have been reading have pretty much convinced me to go with Livernois over Cobb, I was initially sold on Cobb but I like the reliability aspect of Livernois. Does anyone know if they do e30 tunes for ecoboost? I messaged them a little bit ago so I'm sure theyll tell me but was just curious if anyone on here has an e30 tune from them.

I've probably had the most interaction with them other than say Lex, who had a highly modified EB running their race tune, full bolt on and "clipped turbo" etc. a deep 11 second car.

I do not believe they do E-30 or non starndard fuel tuning unless you were to go to their shop for a custom tune. However they do offer a HPFP which you could use in conjunction with high flow injectors. It's one of the few HPFP aftermarket options currently available and pretty good from what I hear.

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[tittermary]

And you just proved my point as to why using the common busses available through OBDII is not fast enough. You need to have the data at the same rate as the PCM...which is what Livernois told us they do a while back, 8mS refresh (125hz) is that they said their system works at. That's a far cry from the fastest supported OBDII data bus protocol, 20Hz. Most are 5-10 and intended primarily for diagnostic / trouble shooting purposes.

our cars don't use obd2 bus, obd2 is just a protocol we have a CAN bus system and the obd2 stuff yout talking about has no bearing on the can bus our cars use, different technology all to together.

OBD-II protocol (not bus) is used for reading vehicle parameters and reading fault codes. This is what the tq app does thats why it sucks so bad

tuners use the HSCAN bus to receive and transmit data.

its not magic or some super secret only we can do it special sauce

HSCAN - Runs at 500Kbps. It is the fastest of the two networks, and all mission critical systems communicate here. Here are some modules on this network.
PCM - Powertrain Control Module - 0x7E0
ABS - Anti Lock Brake System - 0x760
IPC - Insturment Panel Cluster - 0x720
PSCM - Power Steering Control Module - 0x730
RCM - Restraints Control Module - 0x737

MSCAN - 125kbs. It is the slowest of the two networks, and most non mission critical items reside here such as infotainment. Here are some modules on this network
IPC - Instrument Panel Cluster
BCM - Body Control Module
ACM - Audio Control Module
APIM - Accessory Protocol Interface Module
FCIM - Front Controls interface module
FDIM - Front Display Interface Module
GPSM - Global Positioning System Module
HVAC -
etc

 

[Bennington]

However they do offer a HPFP which you could use in conjunction with high flow injectors. It's one of the few HPFP aftermarket options currently available and pretty good from what I hear.

Really? Why don't you enlighten us on what you've heard?

 

[v8_vega]

Yes, it downloads a program to your laptop after you use the code on your FP account u have to create. Cant remember if there was a mac option. I would ping the FP tech support on their website. U might want to use a buddy's PC if there is no mac option. It saves a copy of your stock ECU, which may be needed if anything goes wrong. If your car ever throws a CEL, we can now check it with the ProCal rather than spending $100 on a diagnosis.

There is a Mac option.

 

[PRG3k]

Really? Why don't you enlighten us on what you've heard?

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4528333]

Three vendor announcements just last month. No secret.

 

[TheLion]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4528333]

Three vendor announcements just last month. No secret.

I ^^ this...the anti-jack-a** response . But really, it's a grand conspiratorial plot to deny Bennington information on HPFP's...hence my original cryptic response.

Stewardess, more coffee please!!! Maybe I'll be nicer after my morning rush.

 

[apx632]

Great post, Lion! quick question then, in your opinion, for a DD Ecoboost, with the Cleveland built engine, already outside of the warranty window, (42k miles, I purchased certified preowned, so that preowned warranty will expire in the spring) it appears that you would recommend either the LMS or the FP tunes then if I am looking for a HP boost but still want to keep the reliability relatively safe?

Obviously with the appropriate upgrades, FMIC, spark plugs, etc.

For what it's worth I am tuned by Tune+ and drive my car everyday 80mile round trip to work and all my personal stuff I do, so I do 1200+ miles every single month. I've had my custom tune since June and the car has been flawless. I send logs to Adam just to he can check and make sure everything is how it should be. Been a great experience so far. I'm tuned on 93 octane as well for reference.

 

[TheLion]

I've hosted them on my photobucket so people can actually see them

Couple of points on the FP tune and other mods. These appear to be at the wheels numbers. The graph reports a peak whp of 269 stock, which is right in line with 310 chp*0.85 = 263whp. 0.85 represents the assumed 15% drive train losses. Livernoise also dynoed their stock 2015 EB at 262 whp, the power and torque curve look identical on the Livernois stock dyno to that of whipples.

The FMIC will significantly flatten out the top end, it does a decent job even of the stock PCM software. I'm guessing the stock dyno is with the car bone stock, the FP dyno is with the FP tune combined with the whipple intake and FMIC.

If you look at the FP engine dyno graph, with the only difference being the tune, you can still see the effects of heat soak tapering the top end. The longer you push hot air through that FMIC, the worse the heat soak gets and the more timing / throttle is pulled. FMIC isn't going to necessarily increase power, it's just going to allow the engine and software make the most ideal power. If you blew ice cold air across the stock FMIC to keep it cool, the power curve would look much flatter than the FP power cure (similar to what Fox has shown us above).

Here is the FP engine dyno power curve (just their intake and software I'm assuming on an otherwise stock engine): https://performanceparts.ford.com/images/part/full/23caldyno.jpg

Here is K-Rolls 2016 EB with Livernois 93 tune and an upgraded FMIC (no other mods):

If you look at Fox's dyno of the FP tune, it looks awfully similar to the Livernois tune, just slightly less power down low, Livernois seems to run a more aggressive strategy to get that awesome table top power curve from 4000 to 6500. Both power curves however are a huge improvement over stock (assuming what Fox was actually given really represents what we will receive). Maybe when the new year rolls around and I've put some miles on the FP tune I can get it dynoed and then go back a month later to dyno again with the Livernois 91. That would give us a 1:1 comparrison on a nearly full bolt on stock turbo car, two tunes back to back, both given time to optamize for a month of actual driving and use.

The DP is obviously stock on my car however as the OE tune and FP tune require stock DP and I wanted to maintain backward compatibility. Currently running the stock tune and it's not bad with the supporting mods I have, the 3.73 rear end, FMIC and other mods really make the best of it.

The biggest difference I see between the FP tune and LMS tune is that LMS holds peak torque back longer, until about 4k. This provides less power at lower RPMs below 3k, but a very flat and awesome power curve from 4000 to red line. I can attest to that, combined with the 3.73 rear end, this thing is a rocket sled if you hold at 4k while merging and launch. Going 60 mph, the back end squats and I break traction in 4th gear if the road is even slightly damp on the 235 F1's doing a 4k hold (spools up the engine and turbo). It's impressive.

The FP tune seems to run the same torque curve as stock, but lifts the torque limit and lets the engine achieve what it may safely instead of meeting the torque goal and then stopping even if there's a lot more left. From a "proprietary" knowledge standpoint, both have direct access to Ford's own testing etc. I'm really curious to see now how they will feel back to back since I have both. Interestingly enough the FP tune is pushing more wheel torque in Fox's dyno graph than the LMS tune, but becasue it's at such a low RPM range, it's not producing as much of a table top power band.

I'm guessing the FP tune will feel more like a ramp, like an NA engine where power builds as RPM increases and stays for last 1k rpm, where the LMS tune definitely feels flat (not weak), but as in you get a tone of power immediately, but it doesn't increase or build, it just stays and pulls til red line very linearly.

 

[TheLion]

Doh :doh:. Fox gave us the info above in the first picture. Didn't even notice the penned in info. You see all 4 sets of numbers, stock, CAI only, CAI + FMIC and finally all 3 combined.

Those are at the wheels numbers. Also chatting with FP online, they are going to see if they can send me an actual dyno graph from their engieering department (not an engine dyno, but car dyno), we'll see what they come up with (most likely it will be on a bone stock car with just their CAI, so we should see the effects of heat soak at the top end).

But as you can see from Fox's info, the FMIC really helps with power by eliminating heat soak just as I've seen a while back on the BIG CAI thread where an OP dynoed their car stock then with just the FMIC. In the best case he was pushing 30hp+ more at the top end due to eliminating heat soak.

So here's Fox's results in easily seen form:

Stock: 269whp / 303 wtq

CAI: 283whp / 305 wtq (not much improvement, CAI's however do add throttle response and more consistent power, due to the much higher dust capacity, they will flow better when dirty over the same service interval as a stock filter, so there are benefits)

CAI+FMIC: 297whp / 324 wtq (this is what I'd expect, the crappy FMIC really hinders the car's stock performance, just a FMIC will waken up the stock car a decent bit, a gear reduction to 3.55 for auto's and 3.73 for MT's will make it quite peppy)

CAI+FMIC+FP Tune: 324whp / 398wtq (they are actually pushing a bit more power and torque than Livernois, but in different areas than Livernois, it would be interesting to see a back to back comparrison at the strip to see which is faster, lower amplitude but broader power curve, or the higher amplitude but peakier power curve of FP)?

 

[TheLion]

For what it's worth I am tuned by Tune+ and drive my car everyday 80mile round trip to work and all my personal stuff I do, so I do 1200+ miles every single month. I've had my custom tune since June and the car has been flawless. I send logs to Adam just to he can check and make sure everything is how it should be. Been a great experience so far. I'm tuned on 93 octane as well for reference.

So was KadenW23 and is now holed block at 29k miles...

 

[shelbywannabe]

So was KadenW23 and is now holed block at 29k miles...

No way it could have been from his driving habits I imagine !

 

[metalhead79]

Stock: 269whp / 303 wtq

CAI: 283whp / 305 wtq (not much improvement, CAI's however do add throttle response and more consistent power, due to the much higher dust capacity, they will flow better when dirty over the same service interval as a stock filter, so there are benefits)

CAI+FMIC: 297whp / 324 wtq (this is what I'd expect, the crappy FMIC really hinders the car's stock performance, just a FMIC will waken up the stock car a decent bit, a gear reduction to 3.55 for auto's and 3.73 for MT's will make it quite peppy)

CAI+FMIC+FP Tune: 324whp / 398wtq (they are actually pushing a bit more power and torque than Livernois, but in different areas than Livernois, it would be interesting to see a back to back comparrison at the strip to see which is faster, lower amplitude but broader power curve, or the higher amplitude but peakier power curve of FP)?

What am I missing? Torque is awful high for a stock car. Shouldn't that be in the 270-280wtq range?

 

[TheLion]

What am I missing? Torque is awful high for a stock car. Shouldn't that be in the 270-280wtq range?

Depends on the Dyno, car, fuel and atmosphere of the day. 320 ctq * 0.85 = 272 so that does seem a bit high.

 

[metalhead79]

Depends on the Dyno, car, fuel and atmosphere of the day. 320 ctq * 0.85 = 272 so that does seem a bit high.

Stock car, so the car has to be on 93 or 91 octane. Even in great atmosphere, you aren't adding 30+ torque on a stock car.

 

[TheLion]

Stock car, so the car has to be on 93 or 91 octane. Even in great atmosphere, you aren't adding 30+ torque on a stock car.

Not sure, the torque on the stock car is the only value that doesn't make sense from those results. But that does throw it all into question as to whats really going on.

However if you look at the shape of the torque curve, the majority of the curve is about 270~280. There's only a momentary spike when the dyno graph started. It may be just a dyno error they ignore. The base run looks typical of a stock EB and HP numbers fall right in line.

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