For the MT owners: how do you downshift?

[15wile]

Use the Force, Luke . . . . not the instruments.

Seriously, rev matching by sound and/or by how much you kicked the gas is something that should come to you with a little practice and ultimately feel just as natural as knowing where to find the gearshift knob or the clutch pedal without looking.

With time. For now I use the tach, until I get used to the car. Only had it a month so far. And I like nice, smooth highway downshifts. Like you say, with time and practice.

Precisely why you should be downshifting before entering any corners where experience has taught you that a lower gear will be required coming out of them. Anticipate, and be in, the right gear before the apexes of those corners (classic road-race/manual transmission thinking) rather than grab the lower gear only when you discover somewhere in the middle of that corner that you're a gear or two too high (that's automatic transmission logic and quite possibly of some blame here).

Once the Force is with you on this, shifting mid-corner will become more graceful for those times when your anticipation is a bit 'off' or the situation suddenly changes and a still lower gear becomes more appropriate.


Norm

All true. Though the specific scenario that I am describing is when I'm approaching a right turn on a side street. So I'll downshift from 4th to 3rd or 3rd to 2nd, depending, as I approach the corner. Since I'm slowing down I just do a little clutch slip to match up and brake, then I have power in the corner, and can upshift coming out if I want, or just gun it in the lower gear.

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[r1lovin]

I downshift because it saves gas and my brakes.

 

[Wblv17]

I downshift because it saves gas and my brakes.

and keeps rims cleaner

 

[SVTFreak]

I downshift because it saves gas and my brakes.

Except wears clutch, which is harder and more expensive to replace.

 

[MagneticA]

Except wears clutch, which is harder and more expensive to replace.

But more than likely won't occur within first 100,000 miles.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Except wears clutch, which is harder and more expensive to replace.

Clutch wear becomes essentially nil, if you rev-match.

'Round and 'round and 'round we go . . . addle:


Norm

 

[Asharus]

ive always rev matched all my cars and have yet to replace a clutch

 

[r1lovin]

Except wears clutch, which is harder and more expensive to replace.

I have a honda civic daily driver with 120k still on the stock clutch

All of my cars have been sticks and I've also never had to replace a clutch due to wear.

 

[mikeyjobu]

So just a few more comments on this sh!t show, after doing some heel-toe testing: I used to heel toe my 67 Beetle -- it was really easy to get my foot on both the gas and brake at the same time -- and the brakes sucked bad enough that if you were to lose a little control over brake pressure hitting the gas, you'd never really notice too much. I also used to enjoy dumping the clutch being stupid with it. With my 99 civic I gave it up because - as I redescovered today testing it -- it's ergonomically and anatomically impossible for me to do -- the brake engagement versus throttle engagement is just impossible. The Beetle's gas pedal hinged on the floor, and was actually a nice setup. So I took the Mustang out and tested it out -- it's much more doable, and I took a few laps around the neighborhood doing a few 4 to 2 downshifts, trying to rev match -- sometimes I got it just right, and sometimes those Brembo's grabbed so hard as to negate making the attempt. There's a spot where the "safe speed" drops to 10, and that's the sort of tight corner you'd want this technique. I'll probably work at it some -- was fun going downhill in the Beetle doing it -- I lived in Baltimore and worked in Towson -- going up 83 I'd take the Ruxton Road exit, which had some twists, tight turns, and was mostly downhill. I'm not going to put a Fujiwara Tofu Shop sticker on my car just yet, but I do love Initial D. I'm not sure how valuable the technique is, but I will concede that it's fun to play with in the Mustang. As I've already posted, like r1lovin stated in his experiences, I'm almost at 156k on my original stock clutch for the civic. I can't fault anyone for just downshifting and slipping the clutch going into a corner -- in some cars it really doesn't cause any significant additional wear, and is pretty easy to get used to. The current Mustang is maybe an unknown quantity -- but who knows, really. From what I understand, lots of race-ready gearboxes are the dog style, and from what I understand, those really demand all the clutching techniques being discussed to get better performance from them. Doing some more research, it seems like some of the high-rpm characteristics of the MT-82 may be partly due to it being a synchromesh box -- the slower shifts, high RPM lockout, etc. -- the stuff that's created a market for those transmission bushings and such...

 

[Norm Peterson]

I hear you about "grabby brakes". Even with OE brake pads it's easy to step on them a bit too hard while trying to H-T, and unintentionally spiking that middle pedal isn't going to sit well with any drivers who might happen to be following you. With pads that have really good bite, you might end up on a first-name basis with everyone in the body shop and have your own stool to sit on at coffee break time. I doubt that my '08 GT's pedal positioning is any more favorable for H-T than the 2015's is - truth is it's still too cumbersome for me (with a pair of knees that aren't 100% OE any more) to bother with.


You should try to sign up in the instructed hot laps run group at one of NJMP's own track days to better experience the advantage of getting your downshifts in before you're in a corner that you know you'll be accelerating out of. You'd likely be running the corners at up to 50 or 60 mph rather than 10 or 20, or slightly faster than you might take I95/695/83 on-ramps instead of the same speed that you might take 90° residential neighborhood corners.


Norm

 

[VTECSAUCE]

I do big toe little toe. Essentially a sloppy heel toe, my huge awkward feet make it nearly impossible to do heel toe properly.

 

[mikeyjobu]

I hear you about "grabby brakes". Even with OE brake pads it's easy to step on them a bit too hard while trying to H-T, and unintentionally spiking that middle pedal isn't going to sit well with any drivers who might happen to be following you. With pads that have really good bite, you might end up on a first-name basis with everyone in the body shop and have your own stool to sit on at coffee break time. I doubt that my '08 GT's pedal positioning is any more favorable for H-T than the 2015's is - truth is it's still too cumbersome for me (with a pair of knees that aren't 100% OE any more) to bother with.


You should try to sign up in the instructed hot laps run group at one of NJMP's own track days to better experience the advantage of getting your downshifts in before you're in a corner that you know you'll be accelerating out of. You'd likely be running the corners at up to 50 or 60 mph rather than 10 or 20, or slightly faster than you might take I95/695/83 on-ramps instead of the same speed that you might take 90° residential neighborhood corners.


Norm

Some instructed hot laps would be fun!

They can't prove it anymore, but I might have busted the speeds you mentioned a few times -- it gets really "interesting" trying to mitigate some sideways action with a swing axle car... It's actually easier when it's wet out -- easier to spin the wheels and level them out.

Yesterday in the Mustang -- after three or four times around the neighborhood -- I was getting some looks from the pedestrians -- not dirty looks, just more of a "hey -- that's the new Mustang! Cool!" sort of look (okay maybe a few dirty looks). I was careful in my neighborhood (in Montgomery County) -- lots of speed cameras, kids, etc. So a portion is uphill, and it's downhill the opposite way -- the 10mph corner is just at a spot where there are no houses for a bit, and only sidewalk on the inside of the corner -- My fastest entry was a carefully mitigated 45 mph -- I did slip the clutch a few times to get a sense of the sound of it (and cheated by looking at the tach some) before trying to H-T (I'm going to use your abbreviation with you) -- it was satisfying -- I have to confess... I figure you're probably right as far as seeing benefits of H-T at higher speeds -- I might put them a bit higher than you've suggested -- not for a residential neighborhood, for sure...

 

[Stang_inang_yan]

I'm still trying to figure out how to rev match correctly . It's pretty frustrating

Me too. It's a hit or miss with me but whenever I get it perfect, I smile like it's going to be a good day.

How do you really rev match properly?

 

[Supa LA]

Me too. It's a hit or miss with me but whenever I get it perfect, I smile like it's going to be a good day.

How do you really rev match properly?

When the transition to the next gear (lower) is smooth and you don't get that slipped clutch/lunge feeling in the car. It takes practice, lots of it. Learning your rpm ranges and where gears like to be matched vs the throttle input helps. Try the higher gears first, like going from 6th to 5th and then to 4th. Once you start to get those down rev matching the lower gears gets easier.

 

[kd4gij]

Been driving MT cars for 35 years, never had to replace a clutch. My 89 5.0 clutch cable broke. Had to drive it to work every day for 2 weaks till the new cable came in.

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