For the MT owners: how do you downshift?

[15wile]

On a side note, I think I've finally got rev matching down pretty well without using the tach. Wasn't even thinking about it this morning on my way to work and I suddenly realized I had been downshifting the whole way (traffic is usually shitty enough around here to require lots of shifting up and down) without using the tach anymore.

For me it's a little blip if going down one gear, or a bigger blip if going down two gears, then a kind of feathering of the clutch a bit, midway through the pedal travel. The throttle blip gets it close enough that it won't lurch, and that bit of feathering makes it butter smooth.

Not really interested in clutchless shifting or heel-toe. I don't see much point in the former, and the latter is just awkward (and I'm not a race car driver anyway). Pretty awesome that some of you folks can do this, though!

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[BmacIL]

At the very least, I don't think I'd ever buy a used car with a stick unless I knew the guy personally.

This.

 

[Asharus]

i've purchased 2 manuals used before and they were both fine. i think they both had getrag trannies too... a 1997 318ti and 2001 540 6 speed sport.

 

[JmalB]

I haven't rev-matched consistently since I sold my Miata. That is the only car I've had that I could comfortably do it physically. My NSRT-4 has a big hump under the steering wheel that got in the way of my knee, and the Mustang's brakes are too grabby for me to do it consistently. The only time I get it right in the Mustang is when I come into the corner hotter than I normally would. Been trying to adjust my foot position on the brake but invariably I only get it right when I'm already stopped.

So most of the time I slip the clutch. I'm not driving it fast enough to upset the chassis.

 

[Norm Peterson]

If you're using the brakes, that'd be heel-toe.

I know exactly what you're getting at with trying to do H-T in a street environment with grabby brakes.


Norm

 

[Horse]

Here's a brief overview video I shot of shifting clutchlessly.

Nice video, clutchless in a mustang!

 

[Horse]

CAUTION: ATTEMPT AT YOUR OWN RISK.
1. To get into Neutral: Between acceleration and deceleration, there's a stage called coasting, when you're just rolling in gear, neither acc nor decel. That's when there's no load on the transmission. Light pressure on the gearknob towards neutral will allow the trans to pop into neutral when coasting.

2UP. To Upshift: Then, as the rev continue to drop, apply light, firm, steady pressure on the gear knob towards the next higher gear. When the revs match the correct ones for the road speed, the lever will pop into the next gear, as long as your finger pressure on the knob remains constant. That's it.

2DOWN. To Downshift:. Get into neutral using step 1. Now blip the throttle: be generous. Then, as the revs drop after the blip, apply light, firm, steady pressure on the gear knob towards the next lower gear. When the revs match the correct ones for the road speed, the lever will pop into the lower gear, as long as you apply constant pressure on the knob. That's it.

Thanks for the detailed explanations.

I have tried (with success) taking it out of gear without using clutch; but have never summoned enough courage to attempt putting it into a gear without clutch. I guess the key is to know the exact moment (when the rpm is right) and apply force to push/pull the shift knob into the intended gear. I personally would not apply a constant force to the shift knob while waiting the rpm to match, as this will labor the synchro imo. Just my 2 cents. :cheers:

 

[Hashbrownn]

I never rev-match doing my Daily Driving. I've been driving manual for 20 years. Never had to replace a single clutch/transmission/engine. I only rev-match when I am doing spirited driving on the mountains. I don't track my cars.

 

[Carzzi]

Thanks for the detailed explanations.

I have tried (with success) taking it out of gear without using clutch; but have never summoned enough courage to attempt putting it into a gear without clutch. I guess the key is to know the exact moment (when the rpm is right) and apply force to push/pull the shift knob into the intended gear. I personally would not apply a constant force to the shift knob while waiting the rpm to match, as this will labor the synchro imo. Just my 2 cents. :cheers:

It takes some intestinal fortitude to learn this on a new car. I learned on on a $3000 car, so it wasn't a big deal on subsequent cars. If anything, the S550's improved shift linkage makes shifts even butterier compared to my 2012 GT's MT82.

I've found that I've been shifting thus new car more with the clutch, as the whole experience is more pleasurable compared to the '12. I like the clutch helper spring, and yesterday I added on a "clutch pedal extension" from American Muscle which has much improved my seating position (I'm shaawt): a biblical revelation with gauging clutch engagement point due to the different foot muscle action due to my new seating position. As a result of this further rearward seating, the brake engagement is far less grabby, as I pivot my ankle to engage the brakes rather than my thigh muscle, if that makes any sense.

 

[Horse]

It takes some intestinal fortitude to learn this on a new car. I learned on on a $3000 car, so it wasn't a big deal on subsequent cars. If anything, the S550's improved shift linkage makes shifts even butterier compared to my 2012 GT's MT82.

I've found that I've been shifting thus new car more with the clutch, as the whole experience is more pleasurable compared to the '12. I like the clutch helper spring, and yesterday I added on a "clutch pedal extension" from American Muscle which has much improved my seating position (I'm shaawt): a biblical revelation with gauging clutch engagement point due to the different foot muscle action due to my new seating position. As a result of this further rearward seating, the brake engagement is far less grabby, as I pivot my ankle to engage the brakes rather than my thigh muscle, if that makes any sense.

Indeed, once you have learned it on one car (preferably a cheap car), you will never forget it.

 

[OppoLock]

I'm not understanding the practical benefits of clutchless shifting.

 

[15wile]

I'm not understanding the practical benefits of clutchless shifting.

I don't really get it either. Maybe it saves wear on the clutch or something? But it seems like a lot of effort to learn for that.

 

[Norm Peterson]

It's a potentially useful skill, say, in the event of a clutch mechanism failure.

I've been there in other cars - broken cable (Ford), broken cable (ditto), mechanical linkage pushrod attachment self-disassembly (Chevy) - in that order.

I'd rather be able to deal with something relatively minor like this on my own than sit around helplessly waiting for a tow.


Norm

 

[mustang_guy]

This whole thread is hilarious.

 

[kd4gij]

I'm not understanding the practical benefits of clutchless shifting.

When something breaks in the clutch system. You can still get it home. I have been driving manuals for over 35 years. Cluth linkage or cables breaking was pritty common. With hydraulic clutches in newer cars you can still have faiures but not as common. When I had my 89 5.0 the clutch cable broke on my way to work. Had to drive it for 2 weaks wating for parts. It was my onle car at the time.

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