Fat Fab vs. Hellion vs. Procharger

[Ninjak]

Feel free to call me about Fathouse. I don't work for them, they don't do my work for free either. I just happen to be the first guy to provide them the canvas to do their art! Ill answer all your questions honestly. 317 414-9355

I may need to take you up on that ! The FatHouse system is pure sex. Its just do I want to plop down that much for the sex !!!

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[Stunt1o1]

Feel free to call me about Fathouse. I don't work for them, they don't do my work for free either. I just happen to be the first guy to provide them the canvas to do their art! Ill answer all your questions honestly. 317 414-9355

I’ll be giving you a call soon

 

[bullitt5566]

I'm going to tell you from experiance with my Bullitt. Get a Vortech supercharger, install, and enjoy. Sure the TT kits are cool, but all of the added complexity and cost will kill any enjoyment when it doesn't work right. I like the Fathouse turbo placement, but I suspect with the turbos being mounted that low they need an oil return pump to return oil to the pan. This would be a longevity issue for me. The hellion kit is cool, but if you start seriously looking at the amount of modifications required to install the turbos, wastegates, bypass valves, and intercoolers, you might change your mind. The Procharger kit is nice because it has a dedicated drive belt, but this also means you have to add an additional pulley to the balancer and we know the Vodoo engine has vibration issues already. Plus you need to replace the factory airbox with a filter hanging off a pipe. Cheesy. The Whipple is ok for a standard 5.0, but you start adding too much low end boost to an engine with 12:1 compression and your asking to rattle the engine and scatter parts. Plus you have to lower the engine cradle (raise the car) with the whipple. The whipple is heavier and I think in the tune whipple narrows the Lobe Seperation Angle at low RPMs to bleed off some of the low rpm boost. The Vortech uses the factory belt which is fine for boost below 12 psi, keeps the factory air intake location. Only requires the factory coolant overflow to be moved. Weights less than Whipple or turbos. And produces a linear boost curve that matches the Voodoo's high static compression and power band nicely. Just my thoughts on the subject. Keep it simple and enjoy.

 

[nastang87xx]

I'm going to tell you from experiance with my Bullitt. Get a Vortech supercharger, install, and enjoy. Sure the TT kits are cool, but all of the added complexity and cost will kill any enjoyment when it doesn't work right. I like the Fathouse turbo placement, but I suspect with the turbos being mounted that low they need an oil return pump to return oil to the pan. This would be a longevity issue for me. The hellion kit is cool, but if you start seriously looking at the amount of modifications required to install the turbos, wastegates, bypass valves, and intercoolers, you might change your mind. The Procharger kit is nice because it has a dedicated drive belt, but this also means you have to add an additional pulley to the balancer and we know the Vodoo engine has vibration issues already. Plus you need to replace the factory airbox with a filter hanging off a pipe. Cheesy. The Whipple is ok for a standard 5.0, but you start adding too much low end boost to an engine with 12:1 compression and your asking to rattle the engine and scatter parts. Plus you have to lower the engine cradle (raise the car) with the whipple. The whipple is heavier and I think in the tune whipple narrows the Lobe Seperation Angle at low RPMs to bleed off some of the low rpm boost. The Vortech uses the factory belt which is fine for boost below 12 psi, keeps the factory air intake location. Only requires the factory coolant overflow to be moved. Weights less than Whipple or turbos. And produces a linear boost curve that matches the Voodoo's high static compression and power band nicely. Just my thoughts on the subject. Keep it simple and enjoy.

There are a lot of problems with these statements.

The Voodoo doesn't have vibration "issues." It just has higher levels of NVH. That doesn't mean a problem. The Coyote is notorious for not getting along with centri blowers above 9 PSI because of the harmonic balancer addon as well as PD blowers above 13 - 15 PSI. Why? HARMONICS. This is what kills oil pump gears in the Coyote. Voodoo mills, despite using the same oil pump gear, just keeps on sucking it up. In fact Lund has seen more cranks break in Coyotes with centri blowers than total issues boost related to the Voodoo period.

And here we go with the compression argument again...this isn't the early '90's anymore. 12:1 compression is just compression. There is no magic limit for compression ratios that means your engine will automatically splat. They were saying the same thing about the 11:1 compression in original Coyote. OH MY GOD ELEVEN TWO WON IT'S GONNA BLOW! And yet people throw 7 - 9 PSI at it all day like it's nothing and doesn't come under duress until 11.5 - 12 PSI (better replace your OPG's though). Plus you do know that your Gen 3 Coyote in your Bullitt is 12:1 as well, right?

When Lethal Performance put a Whipple on their GT350 with good injectors, E85, long tubes, and a very conservative tune with a stoich richer than an Emerates Prince, it made 800 RWHP laying back on the couch smoking a doobie. It wasn't even close to snorting crack yet. GT350's running Whipples are starting to become a dime a dozen.

The Voodoo engine gets all this flack for being made of glass yet where are all the stories about the crank splitting like a toothpick or it sending a rod through the roof after a few PSI? The crank is a monster. The factory rods (a traditionally weak spot for Ford and Mustangs) are FORGED with split caps. Not powder forged but true smashed in a press forged. Same with the pistons. This is a stout motor.

Now if I were to boost a Voodoo, it would absolutely be twin turbos with supporting mods. Just because I can run it with a stock OPG, injectors, etc etc, doesn't mean I would but I won't discredit the stock engine's formidable capabilities either. Either I'd be willing spend the $25K or I wouldn't do it at all. My personal preference.

 

[bullitt5566]

For the record my Bullitt is an old 2001 that I built the engine in and I also tune it. It has 10.5:1 compression and makes 572 at the wheels with a Vortech SC. Before I built the engine, it ran imany years with a stock block with making 517 at the wheels. The keys are tune, progressive boost, and good fuel. Now back to the bench racing. Coyote and Voodoo engine with 11:1 and 12:1 compression ratios are going to be limited on how much boost you can run. High compression + boost = detonation, especially at low RPM. (The piston dwells at TDC longer at low RPM increasing the chance and damage caused by detonation) Why do you keep hearing "E85". E85 has a high resistance to detonation just like race gas allowing high comression and high boost. I'm certainly not saying you can't boost the Voodoo or Coyote. That would be my prefered HP method as opposed to some cranky, cammed, high compression NA motor. I'm saying that your going to run into that wall where you have to run E85 or race gas sooner than later. 7-9 psi like you said. I'm just saying this, Turbos are expensive and complicated, the Whipple is big and heavy, the ProCharger and Vortech boost curve match the Coyote/Voodoo compression ration better.

 

[nastang87xx]

For the record my Bullitt is an old 2001 that I built the engine in and I also tune it. It has 10.5:1 compression and makes 572 at the wheels with a Vortech SC. Before I built the engine, it ran imany years with a stock block with making 517 at the wheels. The keys are tune, progressive boost, and good fuel. Now back to the bench racing. Coyote and Voodoo engine with 11:1 and 12:1 compression ratios are going to be limited on how much boost you can run. High compression + boost = detonation, especially at low RPM. (The piston dwells at TDC longer at low RPM increasing the chance and damage caused by detonation) Why do you keep hearing "E85". E85 has a high resistance to detonation just like race gas allowing high comression and high boost. I'm certainly not saying you can't boost the Voodoo or Coyote. That would be my prefered HP method as opposed to some cranky, cammed, high compression NA motor. I'm saying that your going to run into that wall where you have to run E85 or race gas sooner than later. 7-9 psi like you said. I'm just saying this, Turbos are expensive and complicated, the Whipple is big and heavy, the ProCharger and Vortech boost curve match the Coyote/Voodoo compression ration better.

Ah...that changes the conversation completely.

So with the Coyote and Voodoo, especially the gen 3 Coyote, advances in knock control have become incredibly good and compression is no longer an "issue" although the tuning does become more challenging. That's why a lot of builders and tuners including FFH are okay with leaving the 12 or 11:1 compression in a Voodoo or Coyote. They also have packages that do decrease the compression though in a Voodoo and Coyote motor. I believe their limit for 93 pump on the Voodoo is 8 or 9 PSI before they say go E85 or race gas. I want the compression for the response. Now to be fair I do know that's not ideal. But I also wouldn't be looking for 1200 horsepower either...granted I say that "now" (quote un-quote 'now' because I'm not TT'ing anytime soon).

Do you have vids? I'm a wishy washy sucker for a 2v because they sound so good.

 

[JT1]

Depends on your goals. It's going to be hard slay any of the ZL1/C7 C06/C7 ZRI/Hellcat/Red eye/Demons in a straight line with the 6 speed unless you're a hell of a driver no matter how much HP you have.

If you just want a little more power, then the Vortech sounds easy, affordable and enjoyable. And you won't be out 30K when you decide you want a GT500 with a DCT to take on the above cars, lol.

 

[bullitt5566]

That's a great point about keeping the static compression ratio up even on FI engines. I hear so many builders talk about low compression for FI, but that makes the engine a dog on the street. I think there is a dynamic compression limit which would basically be static compression plus boost pressure. And at a certain point the cylinder pressure will be too high for pump gas. So for example, my 2v has 10.5:1 and I run 15# of boost on pump gas. The Voodoo with 12:1 will only tolorate 9 psi before it hits that same dynamic compression and needs pump gas. I also thought Whipple did something with the tune where they could increase the valve overlap through cam phasing thereby decreasing the dynamic compression at lower rpm. Anyway, If or when I go FI on the 350 Vortech will be my choice... at least this week. Anyway here is a video of the 2v.

 

[nastang87xx]

Yep....I like it. Great color too.

 

[lightrules]

Any guys recently go Hellion or ProCharger? Which one, what do you like and dont like, what supporting mods, how many miles now, how is it running?

 

[lightrules]

wanna hear more from anyone running hellion + gt350...

 

[Tonymustang302]

Im going to keep pushing you to the fatfab 800r whipple

 

[lightrules]

Im going to keep pushing you to the fatfab 800r whipple

quit it man. i wanna hear about hellion + gt350

 

[Tonymustang302]

quit it man. i wanna hear about hellion + gt350

you’re gonna make me do it first arent you

 

[lightrules]

so again, anyone running (or plan on running) their gt350 + hellion sleeper twins?

(hoping not for crickets...)

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