Engine oil question.

[lightrules]

well oos now.

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[TomcatDriver]

Champion Modern Muscle® 5W-50 Motor Oil (CMM) is an API SN licensed SAE 5W-50 which Champion recommends for Ford Coyote 5.0L, Ford Mustang 5.2L, Roush Mustang 5.2L, Shelby GT350, Shelby GT350R, Shelby GT500, and others, plus OEM / Engine Builder “Crate Motors” requiring a high performance 5W-50 viscosity.

Oh, cheapest now on Amazon is $83+13 S&H.

 

[TomcatDriver]

From the manual
2 Your engine has been designed to use engine oil that meets Ford specification or an equivalent engine oil of the recommended viscosity grade that displays the API Certification Mark for gasoline engines. Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty.

So I think technically the WSS-M2C931-C is a Ford Spec, and even oils that fully meet all the requirements are not going to carry that label unless they licence it from Ford. Other APN-SN 5W50s are probably fine.

Oh, and while I was looking this up, guess what? There is now a "-D".

 

[JAJ]

From the manual
2 Your engine has been designed to use engine oil that meets Ford specification or an equivalent engine oil of the recommended viscosity grade that displays the API Certification Mark for gasoline engines. Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty.

So I think technically the WSS-M2C931-C is a Ford Spec, and even oils that fully meet all the requirements are not going to carry that label unless they licence it from Ford. Other APN-SN 5W50s are probably fine.

Oh, and while I was looking this up, guess what? There is now a "-D".

The biggest difference between Ford's 931-C spec and API SN is the level of phosphorus. Motorcraft, Castrol Supercar and Lucas all meet the phosphorus spec for 931C at 800ppm or less, while most API SN 5w50's are 1000ppm. The easiest way to tell what's what is to read the label on the bottle - if the label says "meets 931C" then the oil in the bottle meets the spec. If it didn't, then it would be fraud, and manufacturers are careful about stuff like that. However, if it says "recommended for use", then there's no way to know if it meets the spec or not.

931-D is the new spec that maps to API SN Plus, which is the LSPI-resistant formulation. Presumably, the new GT500 will call for 931-D.

 

[TomcatDriver]

The biggest difference between Ford's 931-C spec and API SN is the level of phosphorus. Motorcraft, Castrol Supercar and Lucas all meet the phosphorus spec for 931C at 800ppm or less, while most API SN 5w50's are 1000ppm. The easiest way to tell what's what is to read the label on the bottle - if the label says "meets 931C" then the oil in the bottle meets the spec. If it didn't, then it would be fraud, and manufacturers are careful about stuff like that. However, if it says "recommended for use", then there's no way to know if it meets the spec or not.

931-D is the new spec that maps to API SN Plus, which is the LSPI-resistant formulation. Presumably, the new GT500 will call for 931-D.

Redline says - Popular for 5.4L Supercharged Ford applications like Shelby GT 500 and Ford GT, Focus RS (WSS-M2C931-B/-C)

Amsoil says - Use AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require the following specifications. WSS-M2C931-C. Depending on where you look they also say things like "recommended for" but I have not found the word "meets". Amsoil is SN+

Lucas - Doesn't say in their data-sheet, although there are some internet press releases on third party websites that claim WSS-M2C931-C. Interestingly it does say it on the bottle.

WSS - is a Ford spec. Don't we have standards bodies to preclude exactly this kind of confusion?

 

[JAJ]

Redline says - Popular for 5.4L Supercharged Ford applications like Shelby GT 500 and Ford GT, Focus RS (WSS-M2C931-B/-C)

Amsoil says - Use AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require the following specifications. WSS-M2C931-C. Depending on where you look they also say things like "recommended for" but I have not found the word "meets". Amsoil is SN+

Lucas - Doesn't say in their data-sheet, although there are some internet press releases on third party websites that claim WSS-M2C931-C. Interestingly it does say it on the bottle.

WSS - is a Ford spec. Don't we have standards bodies to preclude exactly this kind of confusion?

We have standards bodies but no enforcement bodies. We have API for North America and ACEA for Europe.

As for OEM approvals, there was a lot of grumbling when GM came out with Dexos certifications that blenders had to apply for and pay for. However, the result is that GM publishes a list of approved service-fill products that they keep updated. For the consumer, regardless of what the bottle says, the Dexos website has the truth.

Ford, on the other hand, treats its specs as "OEM supplier qualification specs" rather than service fill specs. If you're a blender and you want to supply the Ford factory, you need an invitation from Ford to demonstrate to Ford's engineering and procurement departments that your product meets the spec. If Ford isn't interested in adding a new supplier to their roster, they won't even look at your product tests. Ford owner's manuals all say "use products that meet the spec" but there's no list, like the GM list, that tells you which products meet spec. You're left relying on blender's to tell the truth, and frankly, most do.

If you want a chuckle, there's a section on the API.org website that lists all of the API licensed products. For reasons that I simply cannot fathom, the product you mention that "is SN+" is absent from the API licensed list. The advertising also lists Dexos, but last time I checked, it's not on that list either.

 

[lightrules]

back in stock, 12 qts for $10! someone buy it, try it, and report back please

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075MJNSJ...olid=2Z3NBAPS2PT6H&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

also found this article, interesting: http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/3841273

edit: i gave in. ordered it. better be 12 qts, not 1 qt. just curious to see it, even if i dont end up ever using it.

 

[JAJ]

If you're a Mobil 1 5w50 fan, it's on sale at NAPA for $4.99 a quart until 2019 July 07.

 

[TomcatDriver]

We have standards bodies but no enforcement bodies. We have API for North America and ACEA for Europe.

As for OEM approvals, there was a lot of grumbling when GM came out with Dexos certifications that blenders had to apply for and pay for. However, the result is that GM publishes a list of approved service-fill products that they keep updated. For the consumer, regardless of what the bottle says, the Dexos website has the truth.

Ford, on the other hand, treats its specs as "OEM supplier qualification specs" rather than service fill specs. If you're a blender and you want to supply the Ford factory, you need an invitation from Ford to demonstrate to Ford's engineering and procurement departments that your product meets the spec. If Ford isn't interested in adding a new supplier to their roster, they won't even look at your product tests. Ford owner's manuals all say "use products that meet the spec" but there's no list, like the GM list, that tells you which products meet spec. You're left relying on blender's to tell the truth, and frankly, most do.

If you want a chuckle, there's a section on the API.org website that lists all of the API licensed products. For reasons that I simply cannot fathom, the product you mention that "is SN+" is absent from the API licensed list. The advertising also lists Dexos, but last time I checked, it's not on that list either.

Kind of weird in that even Ford owner manual language doesn't actually require WSS-M2C931-C if you sea-lawyer out the language. It says - "Your engine has been designed to use engine oil that meets Ford specification or an equivalent engine oil of the recommended viscosity grade that displays the API Certification Mark for gasoline engines." My emphasis on the "or".

So reading that literally, if you are using any 5W-50 API oil it should be good.

 

[JAJ]

Kind of weird in that even Ford owner manual language doesn't actually require WSS-M2C931-C if you sea-lawyer out the language. It says - "Your engine has been designed to use engine oil that meets Ford specification or an equivalent engine oil of the recommended viscosity grade that displays the API Certification Mark for gasoline engines." My emphasis on the "or".

So reading that literally, if you are using any 5W-50 API oil it should be good.

I like your reading, and for all practical purposes it's probably correct.

However, just to demonstrate how easy it is to split hairs, I'd parse the sentence a little differently. First, it says "oil that meets Ford specification or an equivalent engine oil". To me, that means that the spec that the product meets is equivalent to the Ford spec. To be equivalent, the alternative spec has to be at least as stringent as the Ford spec, although there's nothing stopping it from being tougher. Second, "of the recommended viscosity grade that displays the API Certification Mark for gasoline engines" means to me that not only does the product have to meet an equivalent spec, it must also have the correct viscosity and an API cert mark.

What the statement doesn't actually say is that the Ford spec and the API specs are equivalent. But I still like your interpretation...

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