Engine blew up

[Regs]

Incorrect on the 1st and 3rd assumptions

The added cylinder pressure for making the fuel burn faster should account for the time needed to burn the fuel and timing should not be adjusted? What are the tuners doing now?

You figure the turbo must be constantly fed exhaust to keep it from lagging or else it would be counter productive, and the physical time for the fuel to burn changes when the RPM's are high and the engine working harder. I can't imagine timing staying the same. What if the fuel/air mixture starts igniting in the exhaust manifold?

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[stangs-R-me]

on a side note, does anyone know how the 2.0T camaro has been holding up? im curious to know, its been what a year since its release?

Have they really sold enough of them yet to have any usable data ??

Doug

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Have they really sold enough of them yet to have any usable data ??

They have sold a TON of them. 2017 is the fourth model year for the ATS, 3rd for the CTS and now the CT6.

They changed to colder plugs in 2014. There were a few piston land failures before and after that with no public disclosed or customer solved cause. As normal, customers who were tuned claimed they weren't, so hard to tell if that was a cause.

 

[Turbong]

Looks like a few blew on the tune plus Facebook page too. American engines as well. I imagine a growing trend with the mileage stacking up.

All the hysteria and sky is falling all over again? What few blew? Ive been checking I did not see any recently, what you mean American? The only ones that have been blowing up are Valencia builds, I have only heard of one confirmed American failure which means absolutely nothing. Even then there are plenty of tuned Valencia ones running strong and healthy, although most would agree seeing the significant differences between 15's and 16's there should of been absolutely much more failures now if there wasn't any difference in "something". Even if changes were made it doesn't make them bullet or idiot proof or simply lemon built ones. It has already been well established these motors could handle 350hp 400tq just fine, hell the FP tune confirms that.

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Doesn't the tuner have to advance the timing (from top dead center) so that the added boost air/fuel mixture has time to ignite and burn during the compression stroke? And when they do this, which I suppose they do, it creates added pressure and heat in the cylinder that could pre ignite the fuel that causes damage? When you are boosting 25 psi, you have to advance the timing a lot than you would 18-20psi which adds a lot more cylinder pressure and heat that could cause detonation. 25psi + high cylinder pressure = boom.

There are a lot of things incorrect about these assumptions. I would suggest just doing some reading on the topic, can prob pick a lot of good info up. Our pump gas tunes on the BMW's we run between 2-4 degrees of advance on the top end. The timing curve stays the same shape wise, you just yank 75-80% of the advance out of it.

 

[Apwrx]

All the hysteria and sky is falling all over again? What few blew? Ive been checking I did not see any recently, what you mean American? The only ones that have been blowing up are Valencia builds, I have only heard of one confirmed American failure which means absolutely nothing. Even then there are plenty of tuned Valencia ones running strong and healthy, although most would agree seeing the significant differences between 15's and 16's there should of been absolutely much more failures now if there wasn't any difference in "something". Even if changes were made it doesn't make them bullet or idiot proof or simply lemon built ones. It has already been well established these motors could handle 350hp 400tq just fine, hell the FP tune confirms that.

Yes there have been 2 in the last week or so Tune+ , 4 in the last month or so. Cleveland builds were at least 2 of those. People need to realize a tuned car needs to be monitored and maintenance kept up. I've got a nov 14' Valencia that I've had Tuned for 23k with no issues. Pay attention to what your cars doing and you shouldn't need to worry.

 

[85stang]

Seems to me, if you tune you should be doing E30/E85/Meth injection. These engines seem to need the extra knock resistance you get from higher octane in order to push higher than stock power levels safely. Trying to tune on 91/93 octane seems to be risky.

Yes. using a 93 tune is risky. not always the tuners fault, the quality of 93 octane you get is very spotty. i only use 93 in my completely stock '16. depending on how crappy the gas is, sometimes i will get spark knock. I have figured out a couple gas stations to avoid. If you get crappy gas and use a tune that is near the limit for 93, bad things will happen.

 

[Slow89]

Boost has never, and will never break, blow, explode, boom, anything. Nada, zip, zilch. Timing does all the breaking. Safe pump gas tunes, run a lot of boost, and little to no timing. If your tooner is cranking timing into your pump gas tune, its a matter of time before you are posting a story about your motor.

Jon from Lund will not run past 20psi on 91. So yes timing can kill a motor. But boost will too just as quickly.

 

[Slow89]

Yes. using a 93 tune is risky. not always the tuners fault, the quality of 93 octane you get is very spotty. i only use 93 in my completely stock '16. depending on how crappy the gas is, sometimes i will get spark knock. I have figured out a couple gas stations to avoid. If you get crappy gas and use a tune that is near the limit for 93, bad things will happen.

Exactly.

 

[Ebm]

.

Boost, timing, and revs are what kills...

 

[VargasTurboTech]

Jon from Lund will not run past 20psi on 91. So yes timing can kill a motor. But boost will too just as quickly.

Jon has many reasons for doing this. Your theory is in fact wrong, boost on its own absolutely cannot hurt your motor. Many other things that go along with running high boost to get more power can, but an extra 5-10psi of cylinder pressure is not hurting anything. Take 50 psi of compressed air, and blow it on top of your piston, let me know when it breaks it. Boost never breaks anything, its running high boost, coupled with high timing, poor fuel, etc, etc, which produces detonation, preignition, which in turn breaks things.

 

[Regs]

Jon has many reasons for doing this. Your theory is in fact wrong, boost on its own absolutely cannot hurt your motor. Many other things that go along with running high boost to get more power can, but an extra 5-10psi of cylinder pressure is not hurting anything. Take 50 psi of compressed air, and blow it on top of your piston, let me know when it breaks it. Boost never breaks anything, its running high boost, coupled with high timing, poor fuel, etc, etc, which produces detonation, preignition, which in turn breaks things.

50 psi of air with fuel would...

 

[Marvinmadman]

A compression stroke is 150+ psi. 50 psi with fuel wouldn't do anything

 

[Regs]

A compression stroke is 150+ psi. 50 psi with fuel wouldn't do anything

Ah. Though PSI is usually exponential. So even the difference between 50psi to 55psi would be tremendous given the 14.7:1 stoichiometric gas to air ratio of the engine.

Ok - so theoretically you can add 50 PSI to the engine and it won't blow up, and you would be putting out the same power as someone boosting 25 psi. I get it. It's really the air flow + timing of the gas mixture that makes the pressure of the cylinder and torque forces increase.

It would make it pointless to add pressure without adding gas though. That was my hang up.

For instance, 300hp at 2000 RPM's making 15 lbs of boost actually has more cylinder pressure than 350 hp at 3000rpms at 30 lbs of boost since gas is burning at a quicker rate at 3k rpms.

If you are adding more gas then needed at lower RPM's, the turbo is not generating enough PSI to burn it, and then when you try to ramp up the RPM's, you are going to have extra gas sitting in the cylinder. Then Eco go Boom. Ford Performance graph, and even the Cobb stage 1 I recollect, the graph does not really change until after 2500 RPMs because of this.

Here is the added bonus to the equation. The speed of the impeller on a turbo charger is dependent on the speed of the exhaust stream and not the engine speed. When at cruising speed, or when the throttle is not pressed, their is not much exhaust to increase the boost pressure of the turbo. Another reason why timing and A/F should not be touched on any tune until higher RPM. I can only assume this is one of the puzzle pieces causing the Eco-booms at low RPM acceleration. It could also mean that that not enough exhaust is being vented to the manifold in time. But why? Are they screwing with the valve timing to make sure the there is enough positive force to negate the negative force induced by the air/fuel mix in combustion?

All I really know for sure is, I don't think I will ever cut it as a car tuner.

 

[ForYourOwnGood]

If you google LSPI you'll find a lot of information on the topic.

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