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jtmat
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Reach out to Ford.... everyone else is speculation and BS.
yomamma219
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Guessing you'd be looking for someone high up in the engineering department. I've been curious how reaching out to an appropriate someone on LinkedIn would pan out. Just curious how are you going to resolve it?
Side note I've heard Ford found the Spain problem. When everyone at the factory went for the afternoon siesta it allowed parts in the middle of being manufactured/assembled to cool down thus shrink and fall out of manufacturing spec.
Half hoping someone reads that and takes it seriously and it gets written about in car and driver or something.
Side note I've heard Ford found the Spain problem. When everyone at the factory went for the afternoon siesta it allowed parts in the middle of being manufactured/assembled to cool down thus shrink and fall out of manufacturing spec.
Half hoping someone reads that and takes it seriously and it gets written about in car and driver or something.
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Glenn G
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Been tried before, once even by me.
The problem is there is far too much emotion tied to it and way too many variables to account for. It also won't be very long before some idiot comes into the thread with something like "should have bought the v8" which will derail the whole thing and get it locked.
Mine went pretty well but during my search I came up on so much negativity and just out right crap that I got disgusted and just didn't log in to the forum for months.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49520&highlight=BLOWN
4 of the 6 people that responded had early builds, one never reported a build date.
The second problem is that just about everyone reported that they were driving normally when it happened. It's just human nature that no one wants to admit to flooring it in 6th gear at 40mph. None of the six people who reported to me gave me any reason to doubt their accounts of how it happened however.
Third problem is tunes, Since most are reported to have blown at light throttle low gear situations, it pretty much discounts tunes as most if not all have no need to alter those maps. But again depends on if the manner in which it blew was correctly reported by the owner. Dealers looking to deny warranty claims for as little as a CAI while some dug in and honored it on tuned and bolt on cars are no help either.
In the end, what I found was that the number blown was not really statistically significant, actually less than the number of blown #8 cylinders, "BBQ tick" and oiling problems on early coyotes. It is orders of magnitude less in percentage based on sales alone of the number of Blown Voodoo engines on this forum alone. What it has shown me is a level of confirmation bias, but if you are serious about pursuing this you will find out what I mean.
There are a large number of Valencia motors out there pushing crazy power and high mileage so I don't think it was a design problem. Hell I don't even think it was LSPI.
I no longer have the links to my other data, you will need to start from scratch on that, but the data was looking like rods were snapping near the little end. The damage that leads to in the block usually smashes the piston to bits making it hard to determine if that was a cause of failure.
My pretty much UN-provable theory was just a bad batch of rods from the supplier. the powder forging process is very susceptible to contamination and or temperature variations. There was probably nothing the Valencia plant could do about it. those micro cracks are not visible to the naked eye. 4 Rods in a car mean that 100 bad rods could take out as few as 25 cars or as many as 100.
The majority of failures I found on other sites and talking to some people I know who used to work for Ford and still had some connections was that the average milage on a blown engine was low, most were less than 10k which was mostly backed up by the people who reported to me.
So again, Purely Speculative, the part numbers for rods changed as soon as the production moved to Cleveland and the problem has mostly gone away. Again according to who I spoke to, who understandibly could not provide any written documentation, the over all failure rate has dropped from .52% to .13%.
If those Numbers are to be believed, a Valencia engine has a less than 1 in 200 chance of having "ANYTHING" go wrong with it. A new version 5 engine is at almost 1 in a 1000. Again these are overall failure rates not just catastrophic failures. A bad injector or seal falls into this category.
Ford is not going to recall 40000 (just a guess, I pulled this number right out of my posterior) cars and replace engines when potentially only 1000 will ever have any issues whatsoever, out of those, maybe only 100-200 have one those bad rods and will suffer a catastrophic failure and more than likely already have.
TLDR: If you have an Early engine and it hasn't blown up 2+years in, I don't think its going to - Take care of it and it will take care of you. I have literally been tuned from day one, I have made multiple trips to 170 mph+ on the Autobahn.
My issues
I had to have my back up camera replaced under warranty
I have that timing cover oil weep that seems to be fairly common.
I spend so much time in boost and at high speed that my average MPG is 19.5
The last one is my fault and I don't care, My Supra gets 17 mpg on a good day
The problem is there is far too much emotion tied to it and way too many variables to account for. It also won't be very long before some idiot comes into the thread with something like "should have bought the v8" which will derail the whole thing and get it locked.
Mine went pretty well but during my search I came up on so much negativity and just out right crap that I got disgusted and just didn't log in to the forum for months.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49520&highlight=BLOWN
4 of the 6 people that responded had early builds, one never reported a build date.
The second problem is that just about everyone reported that they were driving normally when it happened. It's just human nature that no one wants to admit to flooring it in 6th gear at 40mph. None of the six people who reported to me gave me any reason to doubt their accounts of how it happened however.
Third problem is tunes, Since most are reported to have blown at light throttle low gear situations, it pretty much discounts tunes as most if not all have no need to alter those maps. But again depends on if the manner in which it blew was correctly reported by the owner. Dealers looking to deny warranty claims for as little as a CAI while some dug in and honored it on tuned and bolt on cars are no help either.
In the end, what I found was that the number blown was not really statistically significant, actually less than the number of blown #8 cylinders, "BBQ tick" and oiling problems on early coyotes. It is orders of magnitude less in percentage based on sales alone of the number of Blown Voodoo engines on this forum alone. What it has shown me is a level of confirmation bias, but if you are serious about pursuing this you will find out what I mean.
There are a large number of Valencia motors out there pushing crazy power and high mileage so I don't think it was a design problem. Hell I don't even think it was LSPI.
I no longer have the links to my other data, you will need to start from scratch on that, but the data was looking like rods were snapping near the little end. The damage that leads to in the block usually smashes the piston to bits making it hard to determine if that was a cause of failure.
My pretty much UN-provable theory was just a bad batch of rods from the supplier. the powder forging process is very susceptible to contamination and or temperature variations. There was probably nothing the Valencia plant could do about it. those micro cracks are not visible to the naked eye. 4 Rods in a car mean that 100 bad rods could take out as few as 25 cars or as many as 100.
The majority of failures I found on other sites and talking to some people I know who used to work for Ford and still had some connections was that the average milage on a blown engine was low, most were less than 10k which was mostly backed up by the people who reported to me.
So again, Purely Speculative, the part numbers for rods changed as soon as the production moved to Cleveland and the problem has mostly gone away. Again according to who I spoke to, who understandibly could not provide any written documentation, the over all failure rate has dropped from .52% to .13%.
If those Numbers are to be believed, a Valencia engine has a less than 1 in 200 chance of having "ANYTHING" go wrong with it. A new version 5 engine is at almost 1 in a 1000. Again these are overall failure rates not just catastrophic failures. A bad injector or seal falls into this category.
Ford is not going to recall 40000 (just a guess, I pulled this number right out of my posterior) cars and replace engines when potentially only 1000 will ever have any issues whatsoever, out of those, maybe only 100-200 have one those bad rods and will suffer a catastrophic failure and more than likely already have.
TLDR: If you have an Early engine and it hasn't blown up 2+years in, I don't think its going to - Take care of it and it will take care of you. I have literally been tuned from day one, I have made multiple trips to 170 mph+ on the Autobahn.
My issues
I had to have my back up camera replaced under warranty
I have that timing cover oil weep that seems to be fairly common.
I spend so much time in boost and at high speed that my average MPG is 19.5
The last one is my fault and I don't care, My Supra gets 17 mpg on a good day
Last edited:
yomamma219
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That's pretty cool not sure of your field of work but I hear there is a good amount of money in politics for that type of thing.
Just out of curiosity if you did have the full sales/warranty data set could you really do much more than determine if there is any statistically significant correlations going on? I'm genuinely curious as stats interest me but I've only taken entry level college stats taught from an engineering perspective.
perfweld
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I have the pistons and rods out of a Valencia engine, a new set and a used set. I'm willing to pay a few hundred dollars for a rod and piston out of a Cleveland engine for comparison. I will have Esslinger Racing look at them, an engineer at CP / Carrillo that I'm friends with, and ill take measurements and weights of the individual components as well. I cant see there's any difference in the engines myself either, but would like facts rather then speculation as well.
Glenn G
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I doubt there is much difference, if any, between them either, the part number change could be anything from the supplier's new batch, (my belief, though I have no evidence to support it) to simply using new a new nut on the rod bolts.
I would be very curious of your findings as well. The people I got a hold of had no idea about this change but told me part numbers for an assembly, (a collection of parts, like a rod) will change if any single item in the assembly changes.
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RubyRed15
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What can be done depends on the data inputs. On the matter of Spain vs. Cleveland, it'd likely be a fairly simple comparison test, likely using either a basic t-test or a chi-square test of independence.
I assume usable data is not available, and I definitely don't have time to bird-dog it for myself, but it doesn't have to be any more complex than 1) engines built by location 2) engines blown by location. If you want to get into whether tuning was a factor, 3) tuned? (y/n). If you want to get into whether a particular tuner is a factor, then also 4) tuned by (x) and perhaps 5) total number tuned by (x).
3nigma
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Just gonna chime in here.. Been lurking here for awhile and I've been closely monitoring this blown engine controversy as it concerns me being I have an early build.
2015 Ecoboost - build date 11/14 (US)
I'm at 28,000 miles atm.
The last 6,000 of which were driven very spiritedly as well as plenty of highway time.
I bought this car off a family member at around 22,000 miles, during the previous ownership the car was garage kept, driven like an old lady and had nothing but 87 pumped into it unfortunately. Although the oil was changed every 5000 miles at the dealership and has been inspected every visit.
Around 23,000 miles bolt-ons were added (FMIC, cat-back exhaust, UPR catch can, tbsmart blow off-valve) and an OST stage 2 93 cobb tune - ran with nothing but 93 octane since 22,000 miles.
Like I've said, I've done plenty of WOT pulls in those last 6,000 miles.
Car still runs great.
2015 Ecoboost - build date 11/14 (US)
I'm at 28,000 miles atm.
The last 6,000 of which were driven very spiritedly as well as plenty of highway time.
I bought this car off a family member at around 22,000 miles, during the previous ownership the car was garage kept, driven like an old lady and had nothing but 87 pumped into it unfortunately. Although the oil was changed every 5000 miles at the dealership and has been inspected every visit.
Around 23,000 miles bolt-ons were added (FMIC, cat-back exhaust, UPR catch can, tbsmart blow off-valve) and an OST stage 2 93 cobb tune - ran with nothing but 93 octane since 22,000 miles.
Like I've said, I've done plenty of WOT pulls in those last 6,000 miles.
Car still runs great.
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