Eco wheels and tires decision

[\dave]

I'm in a minor quandary for my eco wheel and tire purchase. I don't track, but drive hard on winding country roads with a rough surface finish and a few pot holes. I'm between the following two setups:

1. 18x8 19.5 lb wheels, 45 offset, with 255/45 (Cont. Extreme Contact Summer (25 lb, 8.8" tread) or PS4S (27.5 lb, 8.7" tread)). My car already seems to desire staying on center, so I might need to add spacers (5 or more mm?). This set-up would drop my weight by about 10 lbs or 7.5 lbs per corner, depending on the tire. If I go with this wheel, I would likely go with Continentals for the unsprung weight savings. This size tire has about a 115 mm sidewall, providing good rim protection and enhanced rough surface traction.

2. 19x9.5 22 lb wheels, 52.5 offset, with 255/40 DWS06 (24.7 lb, 9" tread). I would have to add spacers on the front, likely requiring a stud change to get between 40 and 45 offset. These tires have a sidewall of about 102 mm. This setup would drop about 7.8 lbs per corner. A potential benefit of this wheel is future brake upgrades. Downside with the tire profile is less rim protection, and less break away warning when doing curves (lots of ditches and trees here).

I'm not stuck on the looks of either setup, I'm more into function. The 19" set is actually $250 less, including the spacers. I have a 19" wheel coming to do a trial fit.

Thanks for any input,
Dave

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[ModularKid21]

Sounds like you’re in the right track. My question to you would be, why not wider wheel/tire options? If you drive your car hard, even on back roads, you’ll find yourself desiring a tire wider than a 255. You can get very affordable (as well as light weight) 19x10 square set ups that bolt on without spacers/studs etc

 

[Dave TBG]

Sounds like you’re in the right track. My question to you would be, why not wider wheel/tire options? If you drive your car hard, even on back roads, you’ll find yourself desiring a tire wider than a 255. You can get very affordable (as well as light weight) 19x10 square set ups that bolt on without spacers/studs etc

I agree, 19x10 with 285/35-19 is a popular combination and highly regarded as a great performance option. Even with the 19x9.5 wheels, I'd be looking at 265 or 275 width tires.
I do have a couple questions though, are you on stock suspension or have you upgraded? Are you planing any suspension upgrades in the future? I have the 19x8.5 black accent wheels with the stock P Zero Neros, and, it may not be the greatest tire butI think I need more than just a better tire in the same size, I need more tire. See my signature for suspension mods to get an idea of my frame of reference.
Also, I'm curious, what are the wheels you are looking at? 22 lbs is pretty light for a 19x9.5, I've only seen a couple wheels under 23 lbs.

 

[SVO MkII]

I'm in a minor quandary for my eco wheel and tire purchase. I don't track, but drive hard on winding country roads with a rough surface finish and a few pot holes. I'm between the following two setups:

1. 18x8 19.5 lb wheels, 45 offset, with 255/45 (Cont. Extreme Contact Summer (25 lb, 8.8" tread) or PS4S (27.5 lb, 8.7" tread)). My car already seems to desire staying on center, so I might need to add spacers (5 or more mm?). This set-up would drop my weight by about 10 lbs or 7.5 lbs per corner, depending on the tire. If I go with this wheel, I would likely go with Continentals for the unsprung weight savings. This size tire has about a 115 mm sidewall, providing good rim protection and enhanced rough surface traction.

2. 19x9.5 22 lb wheels, 52.5 offset, with 255/40 DWS06 (24.7 lb, 9" tread). I would have to add spacers on the front, likely requiring a stud change to get between 40 and 45 offset. These tires have a sidewall of about 102 mm. This setup would drop about 7.8 lbs per corner. A potential benefit of this wheel is future brake upgrades. Downside with the tire profile is less rim protection, and less break away warning when doing curves (lots of ditches and trees here).

I'm not stuck on the looks of either setup, I'm more into function. The 19" set is actually $250 less, including the spacers. I have a 19" wheel coming to do a trial fit.

Thanks for any input,
Dave

Keep in mind the tire's design/compound can have a greater effect on performance than the size. A RE71 in 255 width will out grip the DWS in 285 width. I would suggest reading the Tire Rack tests for each tire to make sure it fits your needs/expectations.

FWIW, I have used the Conti DWS tires for years. First on a VW Phaeton, then a cc. I selected these tires because they had the best snow traction of any of the other performance all season tires. If you get much snow in VA, that will be a plus.

 

[JCFoster]

I like the 18’s. To me they’re the most functional. I have a set of staggered wheels 255 on the front and 285 rear and hate them.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I like the 18’s. To me they’re the most functional. I have a set of staggered wheels 255 on the front and 285 rear and hate them.

What are your staggered set? Don’t like the weight/low profile or is it something else?

 

[JCFoster]

They’re 18x9s front and 18x10s on the rear. I can feel the back slightly pull left or right depending on how bad the road is rutted up. I also have BMR’s 010 kit installed too. Prior to that it had enough play I didn’t notice it. With a square set up it especially the 18x8s it drives and rides better. FWIW car came with 20x9s. I’m probably more comfortable going faster with the 18x8 on 235s. Mainly because of how rutted up roads are from log and oil field trucks. And the 285s on the rear are louder, Michelin AS3+.

 

[\dave]

Thanks for the replies guys. I had made my post on 6/29 and made my move a week or so later, not having heard any replies by then. But I'll try to answer your questions and comments cause it's always good to share thoughts:

- The 19x9.5 I was considering were OZ Leggera HLT wheels from Tire Rack. They were made by OZ to be rears in a staggered set dimensionally equivalent to the GT PP wheels. OZ stopped producing them and Tire Rack only had the rear 9.5 width 52.5 offset, which is on close-out for $264. The wheels are sweet, 22 lbs, TUV & JWL certified. I ordered one to trial fit on the front, but I found the standout to be overly aggressive for my taste, even before having to add spacers. If any of you guys are in the market for this width in a square set up, these wheels are a fantastic deal. You would just have to deal with spacers and longer lugs up front (1/2" (12.7mm) would put you right at 40mm equivalent).
- I went with the 18x8 Leggera HLT and 255/45 DWS06. The A/S 3+ are Tire Rack top rated, with DWS06 second, but the extra +3 grip comes at the expense of a lot of noise, as I understand. The OZ's are beautiful, although looks wise I prefer my stock wheels (the common 5 star double spoke, gloss black with machined face). But I was after function - light wheels. I'm very happy with my choice so far. The tires are way way way stickier than the P Zero Nero, quieter, lighter, and more comfortable. They are so much stickier that I could hear the difference when rolling them on the garage floor (like new sneakers on a clean hardwood floor). The loss in weight was only a little over 7 pounds per corner, but I can feel the difference in steering response and handling. The stock set-up seemed stuck on center, and I was concerned that going from a 40 (stock) to 45 (OZ) offset would make that worse. But hoping the weight loss and better tires would offset the stuck on center feel, with spacers as a potential back-up plan. It worked out great without the spacers, and I'm real pleased. I spent some time with Brad at Tire rack. He races and provided some sage input.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[\dave]

There were a couple of things I failed to respond to -

ModularKid21 - You asked about why not going 19 and wider. My first goal was weight reduction. I was shooting to drop from 54.5 lbs per corner to about 45 lbs. The only 19 rims I found which could achieve my weight goals were forged, which was out of my comfort zone $ wise. I could afford them, but just couldn't justify them to myself. I considered the 19x9.5 OZ because they are a great wheel at a great price and 22 lbs (I weighed the one I trial fit at 21.5 lbs). Heavier than I was after by about 2 to 3 lbs. The weights on the 19 tires are usually only slightly more than the 18 tires (for same width) so that wasn't a big issue. But weight goes up with width which is why I didn't want to go beyond a 255 in 19. Tire weight is more critical than wheel weight due to its larger mean diameter (a moment of inertia equation thing). The 19 OZ looked great from the side, but as I said, I didn't like the protrusion when viewed from the front when coupled with the stud change and spacer hassle. That might be partially why the GT PP comes with a 9 width on the front, because Ford new the 9.5 would be too much for much of the market.........I'm new to Mustangs (about 1-1/2 years now). I came from the British sports car world. So I have an affinity for light and nimble. Neither the Eco or GT are light but they can be nimble enough, and the Eco is a little more nimble than the GT in their stock forms. That's why I chose the Eco over the GT. The Eco is a little lighter up front and the turbo 4 is a little quicker to spin up on the winding back roads I drive. Also, the Eco convertible (I got a vert) is, by my rough calcs, nearly 50/50 when the top's down. It's a pleasure car, so the top's down most of the time. Back to wheels - my first choice was 18 over 19 in no small part to maintain sidewall height. I know that the lower profile on the 19 gives some handling benefits, but that's at the cost of rim protection, comfort, and less feel at the limit before break away. The 255/45 only gave up about 3mm of sidewall over the stock 235/50 (about 118mm vs 115mm). But the 255/45, which is best on 8.5 rims, provides a little bulge on 8 rims, giving back a little more in suppleness than that 3mm sidewall height loss. It might have ended up a little softer than I wanted, but it does provide great feedback and straight line comfort. So, you guys might consider me to have an unusual perspective having come from the British sports car world.

DAVE TBG - You asked if I have any suspension mods or plan any. So far, I don't have any or any planned. I have done two chassis tweeks: jacking rails and a strut tower brace. The jacking rails are the Steeda light rails, and the tower brace is the Ford Performance. Both made positive changes in stiffness in my convertible.

Again, thanks for you input.

Dave

 

[shogun32]

1. 18x8 19.5 lb wheels, 45 offset, with 255/45

how about 18x9.5? I'll even bring the wheels to you for in-person inspection. Just as long as you don't plan to go to the 6-pot brembos. They don't clear, just...
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/new-motegi-m136-18x9-5et35-set-4-silver-500.140291/

And I'll even drive my EB down to you so you can feel what 19x9.5 feel like.
Hmm, you can probably cancel your order. No point in buying 18x8 when you can at least go up to 19x8.5...
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...wheels-michelin-pilot-sport-as-3-1400.139722/

You asked if I have any suspension mods or plan any. So far, I don't have any or any planned.

you definitely should ride in a car with mods to gauge it...

 

[\dave]

Shogun, thanks for the offer but the OZ's are on the car, and I like em.

 

[Dave TBG]

There were a couple of things I failed to respond to -
DAVE TBG - You asked if I have any suspension mods or plan any. So far, I don't have any or any planned. I have done two chassis tweeks: jacking rails and a strut tower brace. The jacking rails are the Steeda light rails, and the tower brace is the Ford Performance. Both made positive changes in stiffness in my convertible.

Again, thanks for you input.

Dave

Glad you found something that makes you happy. You have 2 of the first 3 mods I put on my car, IIRC, the cowl brace is standard on the conv as well and possibly the lower k brace too. I completely understand where you are coming from, I've always preferred light and nimble to brute force, and learned to drive fast in a "momentum car." I also share your enthusiasm for reduced unsprung, rotational mass so one thing struck me as odd. Why look to save an extra pound or 2 from a wheel if that wheel would require a spacer to fit? The spacer is just going to add that weight back. I always look at weights for wheels that fit in the first place so I won't have to add a slab of metal to it.
This conversation has helped me with my own decision to some extent. I'd like to go to a 19x10 with a 285/35-19 at some point. I DD my car year round and sub-zero temps and snow are both possible. That leads to the question, do I get new wheels and premium all seasons in 285 (AS3+, DWS,) or should I get summer tires and swap to all season tires in the winter? Having 2 sets of tires will cost more (for initial purchase, it will be longer before I need to replace a worn out set though) so I probably wouldn't be looking at top tier tires if I go that route (Firestone rather than Michelin, etc).
I've just noticed that my Nero's are further along than I thought, I'll need to replace them be for the snow starts. Being as that my current wheels are 19x8.5 I can't go any bigger than the stock 255s. My understanding is that the wheels are 26 lbs, I'm going to try the DWS in 255 on them, and put off the bigger wheels until next summer. The Contis are certainly an improvement over the Pirellis (I had the Contis on my Passat TDI and loved them) but, with all my suspension mods, i don't know if it will be enough to make me happy in the summer.

 

[shogun32]

do I get new wheels and premium all seasons in 285 (AS3+, DWS,) or should I get summer tires and swap to all season tires in the winter?

use the factory tires for A/S or snow, proper wheels and tires for non-winter

 

[Dave TBG]

use the factory tires for A/S or snow, proper wheels and tires for non-winter

But there's the dilemma, new wheels plus PS4S's on them plus DWS's on the current wheels is unlikely to get past the wife. So i can keep looking for the right wheel now, put AS3+ or DWS on them and be done. Or I can put a 255 A/S on the stock wheels now, keep looking for wheels and put a lesser summer tire on them in the spring (Indy 500 probably). So, is a second tier summer tire really that much better than a premium, extreme performance all season?
I'm leaning toward the DSW on the stock wheel now. But she won't have forgotten about it in the spring when I want to buy wheels and tires again. I have summer tires, snow tires and track tires for my other car. I'm on thin ice here.

 

[shogun32]

So, is a second tier summer tire really that much better than a premium, extreme performance all season?

not really. Not when driven sanely on public roads.

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