Disappointed with G-loc R10f R8r pads

[Competition Orange]

It has been my experience that fluid issue do not go away until the system is bleed again to remove the air in the line caused by the fluid boiling. Until the system is bleed you would have a soft pedal and once the fluid has boiled its resistance to boiling again is reduced so the cycle is progressive.

This occurred on the first session of Sunday, and I had normal pedal for the remaining 3 sessions.

Personally I would add cooling ducts, change the fluid RBF660 (has to be changed more often that RBF600) or SRF (can be changed less often but can effect o-rings and seals) or ProjectMu (expensive but seems to last as long as SRF without the o-ring and seal issues). There are a bunch of other fluids you can try but the wet number is what matters unless you change the fluid before every event.

I'm going to look into cooling ducts again for sure.

I'll probably grab Endless fluid. All the Porsche guys I track with use it and recommend it. It's eye watering expensive though.

I am not as familiar with the Gloc pads but I do know the Carbotechs very well, I know the compounds are the same but just not sure how the pad #'s correlate to each other. I am not sure a 4,000# car should be running the R10 and R8 pads, but this has a lot to do with the track layout and drivers braking style so that has to be factored into the equation.

G-loc R8/10/12 = Carbotech xp8/10/12.
G-loc R16/18 = Carbotech xp20/24

In the Carbotechs I run the XP20 in the front and the XP12 in the rear with ProjectMu fluid, I ran this way for a year without any ducting and had no brake issues on track at all other than finding the limits of the brake booster, in an effort to extend pad life I added front brake ducts, backing plates, and am working on 2 small scoops in the rear under the car to help move more air to the rear brake calipers and outer CV joints. The rear setup with stock rotors will never be ideal as the rotor vents are on the wrong side of the rotor and would have to be feed air from the wheel side of the rotor to move air through the cooling veins. Not the best idea Ford. The rear calipers will need an upgrade to survive long term use but they are so cheap to replace I have been carrying a spare set of calipers for when they fail. Short term, dedicated track cars can run without the dust seals and rotate the pads from outside to inside to extend rear pad life. This caliper design will always have uneven pad wear and until you replace the single sided sliding caliper design to something better the rears will require more maintenance. I replace my rear calipers at the beginning of every season as a precaution and remove the dust seals after the first pad change.

I was thinking about the xp20 equivalent for my car too. I'm not sure which way I want to go, give a higher temp pad a go or add ducting/shims.

I'm leaning towards the pad though...

This is what I have learned from the first season of use with the PP brake setup. I am still amazed by how well this package performs considering it is an OEM setup. The GT350 guys are really lucky if Ford improved on the PP brakes short comings because there are not many. Every car I have built for track use has always needed huge brake upgrades to even get through a season of track use so the fact that this heavy of a car can brake as well as it does on an OEM setup is amazing.

Dave

Greatly appreciate the information.

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[BmacIL]

If you had the pedal return, it was probably the pads being not bedded in fully or getting too hot. If the fluid was the issue the pedal would remain soft.

The JLT cooling ducts are what I would use if you go that route.

 

[Competition Orange]

If you had the pedal return, it was probably the pads being not bedded in fully or getting too hot. If the fluid was the issue the pedal would remain soft.

The JLT cooling ducts are what I would use if you go that route.

I ordered them pre-bedded and had the markings on them.

I also did some bedding on the street myself, 1 session of 80% driving saturday and a few laps the first session.

I'm leaning towards the pad compound.

I've heard some stories about the JLT hose routing getting pinched by the sway/control arms. It's the kit I like the most as well.

 

[BmacIL]

I ordered them pre-bedded and had the markings on them.

I also did some bedding on the street myself, 1 session of 80% driving saturday and a few laps the first session.

I'm leaning towards the pad compound.

I've heard some stories about the JLT hose routing getting pinched by the sway/control arms. It's the kit I like the most as well.

I'm just kind of surprised that the R10/R8 would have issues on relatively tame street tire (Firehawk Indy 500). If you were on Hoosiers or NT01s or RE71Rs then yeah, maybe. Did they get better later in the day?

 

[Competition Orange]

I'm just kind of surprised that the R10/R8 would have issues on relatively tame street tire (Firehawk Indy 500). If you were on Hoosiers or NT01s or RE71Rs then yeah, maybe. Did they get better later in the day?

I was surprised too based on my research.

They only got "better" because I was limiting my speed on the back straight to about 120-130mph and braking earlier. So early in fact that my instructor started laughing a few times, but I still managed a personal best time!

They didn't get better at all. I could feel the brakes approach the failure point a few times each of the next 3 sessions on both the back straight and front straight, but because I was paying more attention to them it wasn't a safety issue.

 

[wildcatgoal]

I will be running R12-F/R10-R. Ordered the pads from OPMustang.com and don't have any worries about them.

I do have brake ducting (modified JLT kit) but so far have not used it (blocked off my last track day) and have so far used Powerstop's Track Day pad with Ravenol Racing fluid, which isn't half bad for HPDE work. Not much of a bite to them initially but they slow the car down confidently from 120 to 40 in a tight space and have stood up to three track days so far and are maybe half done up front, 1/4 done in the rear. Good beginner value, anyway. But I digress...

 

[NightmareMoon]

You know, you could have just overheated the tires?

Pics of the pad surface would help. If they were pre-bedded, then it shouldn't take much to get them mated to the rotors.

I haven't had any problems with R12/R10 combo with braking, but I did have some soft braking with the OEM pads that I guessed was pad fade due to temps.

 

[hulk_smash]

What tires are you guys running? If you're running a crappy tire with a race pad, you're not going to get full stopping power because your tires won't have grip. Your tires play a huge factor in stopping power.

With that said, I run R16/R10 GLOC pads as recommended by Optimum. Brakes are fantastic and I can stand on them at the last minute and no fade. They are a bit grabby but that could be the PP brake system. As far as brake torque and fading, they are great. Keep in mind that a Carbotech XP8-XP12 is meant for a low 3,000 lbs vehicle. NOT a 3,700-3,900 lbs vehicle.

And although OEM PP pad is pretty stout, it fades and is not suitable for intermediate to advanced drivers.

Most GLOC and Carbotech pads have a max temp of about 1,200 to 1,400 degrees. GLOC R16+ have a 2,000 F operating max temp. In a single 25 minute HPDE session, an advanced driver is getting their brakes to 1,700 degree easy. You can see that an advanced driver would easily fade an entry level race pad. The brake torque is important but the operating temp of the pad is equally just as important.

And as Dave mentioned, brake fluid is one highly overlooked item. Get a quality fluid like Castrol SRF and do it once or twice a year. Or you can run something like a Motul RBF600 but you will be replacing fluid every 3-4 track days.

So think about these things when you think of brakes.

Is my brake fluid fresh?
Do i have air in my brake fluid?
Do my tires match my brake pad?
Am I over driving the car?
Do I have nannies on? I believe the advance trac will lightly tap brakes to keep car in line which would increase brake heat/wear.
Am I properly rev match/downshifting? Don't engine brake on track!
Do I have the right pad for my skill level and car weight?

Most people have too much tire and not enough brake. The stickier the tire, the more aggressive pad that you need to pair it with.

Make sure you're not accidentally hitting the throttle when braking. That may give you the feeling that your brakes aren't consistent. Some guys I know with wide feet have this issue where they accidentally hit gas/brake at the same time. They complain about the brakes but its really that they are hitting the gas simultaneously.

 

[Competition Orange]

I appreciate the last couple replies but it wasn't the tires. The pads were matched to the tire tw and car by both carbotech and g-loc when I had very in depth conversations with them. I stressed with each company the weight I'd have (me and instructor) all year as well as the HP of the car. Their main suggestion came down to the tires, and both recommended the same. I asked if I should bump up a compound due not wanting any issues and they both assured me I wouldn't. Add to that lots of people running them here with no issues, I thought I was good.

I will be calling G-loc this afternoon and discussing my experience with them. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[ddozier]

I will be calling G-loc this afternoon and discussing my experience with them. I'll let you know what happens.

If you get a chance, can you take and post a few pics of the rotor surface and the pad surface as well if you have them off the car. You can tell a lot about how hot the pads are running and how the pad material is interacting with the rotor.

Dave

 

[hulk_smash]

I appreciate the last couple replies but it wasn't the tires. The pads were matched to the tire tw and car by both carbotech and g-loc when I had very in depth conversations with them. I stressed with each company the weight I'd have (me and instructor) all year as well as the HP of the car. Their main suggestion came down to the tires, and both recommended the same. I asked if I should bump up a compound due not wanting any issues and they both assured me I wouldn't. Add to that lots of people running them here with no issues, I thought I was good.

I will be calling G-loc this afternoon and discussing my experience with them. I'll let you know what happens.

Well then it could be brake fluid, your driving style or quite simply, you're too fast for the brake pad. A pad with 1,400 F max operating temp will start fading half way through a session with a good driver. I don't know your skill level but maybe you're better than you think and you should just bump up to R16. I have had great experience with R16F/R10R on PP brakes.

Let us know what GLOC and CTBrakes says.

 

[Competition Orange]

If you get a chance, can you take and post a few pics of the rotor surface and the pad surface as well if you have them off the car. You can tell a lot about how hot the pads are running and how the pad material is interacting with the rotor.

Dave

I parked the car Sunday evening and haven't even unpacked it. I will post up pictures of everything this weekend for sure.

Well then it could be brake fluid, your driving style or quite simply, you're too fast for the brake pad. A pad with 1,400 F max operating temp will start fading half way through a session with a good driver. I don't know your skill level but maybe you're better than you think and you should just bump up to R16. I have had great experience with R16F/R10R on PP brakes.

Let us know what GLOC and CTBrakes says.

Yep, I think it was the pads, and I was simply too fast for them. I hate typing that but it's what my instructor said immediately after the session. He said that shopping "online" is difficult because it might have been ok for 98% of people but the other 2% need something even more.

Yeah, I'm going to probably grab the R16s after I discuss it with Danny at Gloc as well as some endless fluid. I'll see if I can get away with the r8s out back or not...

 

[Norm Peterson]

If you had the pedal return, it was probably the pads being not bedded in fully or getting too hot.

By this ↑↑↑ and Comp Orange's descriptions . . . green fade.

Been there exactly once (with XP8's on my '08 GT).


Norm

 

[Competition Orange]

Rotor:



outside pad:

inside pad:

 

[TNcoupe]

That inside pad wasnt touching on the edge there. Kind of odd to see that. Wonder if it was hung up on the retaining pin and pivoting when the piston came out??

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