Differing reviews

[ATLalien]

With anything in life, personal preference is going to play a role. However, in vehicle reviews I'd think that would be somewhat minimized, especially among professionals that are going to really test the car out and push it to it's limits. I mean limits are limits and performance is performance no matter who is in the driver's seat no? But yet drivers like Randy Pobst are eternally favoring the Camaro in pretty much every aspect while others are giving the edge to the Mustang. And I've seen reviewers comparing 15 Stangs to 16 Camaros, 16's to 15's, same years/similar trims.

At the end of the day who is a good neutral reviewer/test driver that does a great job not showing any real favoritism or bias?...even if they aren't thrilled with the Mustang.

Thanks

-Emt1581

To say that Randy Probst "eternally" favors the Camaro is not accurate. You may remember the Motor Trend article back in '11 when the then new mustang was favorably compared against the M3? That driver was Randy Probst. He also had a favorable review of the GT350. I don't think any bias comes into it, he just calls them like he sees them.

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[Emt1581]

When it comes to looks, the Mustang simply looks better- much better. That's because Ford shamelessly copied design elements from Aston Martin. But, good is good. The Mustang has some euro DNA and even Motor Trend, I think, called the EB an American Audi A5. Pretty high praise.
On the performance issue- it is all bragging rights until you have spent the money and gone to driving school. Then, you "might" be able to use maybe 90% of what the car is capable of in the right conditions- which is not on public roads.

Driving school...that's an interesting idea. I mean I've gone to school for EVOC (to drive the ambulance), motorcycle, but never for racing/track driving. Not sure if that's a weekend type thing or something people do for a few weeks/months/etc. but it sounds fun. How prevalent are they? Never heard of one around here.

Thanks

-Emt1581

 

[Emt1581]

To say that Randy Probst "eternally" favors the Camaro is not accurate. You may remember the Motor Trend article back in '11 when the then new mustang was favorably compared against the M3? That driver was Randy Probst. He also had a favorable review of the GT350. I don't think any bias comes into it, he just calls them like he sees them.

Might not have been fair using "eternally" but from 2012 on it's the impression I got when watching all the vids of him comparing mustangs to other cars (mostly Camaros).

-Emt1581

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Driving school...that's an interesting idea. I mean I've gone to school for EVOC (to drive the ambulance), motorcycle, but never for racing/track driving. Not sure if that's a weekend type thing or something people do for a few weeks/months/etc. but it sounds fun. How prevalent are they? Never heard of one around here.

Thanks

-Emt1581

One option are HPDEs (High Speed Driver Education), and they're run all over the US just about every weekend. I'm in North Florida and within a few hours of me, are Roebling Road, Sebring, CMP, a number of road courses where HPDEs are run by various groups and clubs.

This is a group I've run with several times, and it'll give you a good overview:

http://www.chinmotorsports.com

Basically, you, in your car, with an instructor (until you're cleared for solo), learning high speed driving dynamics in a safe, controlled environment.

Get 20-30 of these under your belt, and I guarantee you can outrun anything built being driven by someone without any driver education. That "intense" driving some people do on the street isn't even in the same ballpark, it's funny to see the kids with their "setup" cars, get reeled in by cars with 1/3 of the HP

 

[Emt1581]

One option are HPDEs (High Speed Driver Education), and they're run all over the US just about every weekend. I'm in North Florida and within a few hours of me, are Roebling Road, Sebring, CMP, a number of road courses where HPDEs are run by various groups and clubs.

This is a group I've run with several times, and it'll give you a good overview:

http://www.chinmotorsports.com

Basically, you, in your car, with an instructor (until you're cleared for solo), learning high speed driving dynamics in a safe, controlled environment.

Get 20-30 of these under your belt, and I guarantee you can outrun anything built being driven by someone without any driver education. That "intense" driving some people do on the street isn't even in the same ballpark, it's funny to see the kids with their "setup" cars, get reeled in by cars with 1/3 of the HP

20-30?? I can't imagine these classes are cheap. What is that experience costing...the 20-30 classes?

Thanks

-Emt1581

 

[ATLalien]

Might not have been fair using "eternally" but from 2012 on it's the impression I got when watching all the vids of him comparing mustangs to other cars (mostly Camaros).

-Emt1581

That's because those were mostly performance variants, specifically the 1LE and the Z28. Hard to find much to complain about those on track day.

Even as lifelong mustang fan, I can admit when a Camaro is good, even if I wouldn't buy one.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

20-30?? I can't imagine these classes are cheap. What is that experience costing...the 20-30 classes?

Thanks

-Emt1581

Well, each one is self-contained, though obviously you [should] get better the more you run. So you can run just a couple a year and you'll still get a benefit.

i.e., it's not like you sign up and run 20 times, you sign up for a weekend (usually two day events), get about 5-10 runs at about 30-40 minutes each depending on class sizes (I've been to 2 day events where everyone cleared out the second day and got like 2 hours of track time in one afternoon!)

Read the link, but they generally run about $300-500 for an event, plus any OOP costs like hotel, food ... gas, lots and lots of gas Plus you'll really eat up brake pads, tires, etc.

They can be much cheaper if they're run by a club like BMWCA and you're a member, and even some brand specific clubs open up events to non-branded vehicles (but you'll get a little hazing )

Where abouts are you in PA?

 

[speedfrk]

Driving school...that's an interesting idea. I mean I've gone to school for EVOC (to drive the ambulance), motorcycle, but never for racing/track driving. Not sure if that's a weekend type thing or something people do for a few weeks/months/etc. but it sounds fun. How prevalent are they? Never heard of one around here.

Thanks

-Emt1581

Depends on where you live... Mercedes AMG did a school at Laguna Seca. Friend of mine did it and said it was amazing. Porsche does a school at Barber in Birmingham. Also a fantastic choice. some smaller tracks have their own school/cars. Atlanta Motorsports Park has a school that uses Arial Atoms and I think you can just pay an instructor to teach in your own car. Lots of options. The big guys like AMG and Porsche have full telemetry and classroom instruction- plus you are in the best cars available.

 

[speedfrk]

Here you go...
https://www.porschedriving.com/experiences/sports-driving-school

 

[Emt1581]

Well, each one is self-contained, though obviously you [should] get better the more you run. So you can run just a couple a year and you'll still get a benefit.

i.e., it's not like you sign up and run 20 times, you sign up for a weekend (usually two day events), get about 5-10 runs at about 30-40 minutes each depending on class sizes (I've been to 2 day events where everyone cleared out the second day and got like 2 hours of track time in one afternoon!)

Read the link, but they generally run about $300-500 for an event, plus any OOP costs like hotel, food ... gas, lots and lots of gas Plus you'll really eat up brake pads, tires, etc.

They can be much cheaper if they're run by a club like BMWCA and you're a member, and even some brand specific clubs open up events to non-branded vehicles (but you'll get a little hazing )

Where abouts are you in PA?

Holy crap!! Yeah I might spring for one or two somewhere down the road but at $300-$500 a pop plus pads/tires/etc...I think I'll stick to ignorance being bliss, staying responsible on the highway, and visiting the track sporadically.

I'm in the Lehigh Valley area...about 15mins from the Jersey border.

Thanks for the info.

-Emt1581

 

[Emt1581]

Here you go...
https://www.porschedriving.com/experiences/sports-driving-school

$2000 per DAY?!? I'm in the wrong line of work! :frusty:

-Emt1581

 

[paul123]

But yet drivers like Randy Pobst are eternally favoring the Camaro in pretty much every aspect while others are giving the edge to the Mustang. And I've seen reviewers comparing 15 Stangs to 16 Camaros, 16's to 15's, same years/similar trims.

At the end of the day who is a good neutral reviewer/test driver that does a great job not showing any real favoritism or bias?...even if they aren't thrilled with the Mustang.

one problem with the reviews is they don't factor in costs, and assume that it's all the same to buyers whether a car is $31k or $45k, and they just pick their favorite car

And they don't factor in drivability in rush hour traffic, which is most cars will spend most of their time. So even if we assume 2016 Camaro is a superior machine on the track, how's that relevant to the real world, where the Camaro with its sub-par visibility will be attempting multiple lane changes and merges in rush hour traffic.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Holy crap!! Yeah I might spring for one or two somewhere down the road but at $300-$500 a pop plus pads/tires/etc...I think I'll stick to ignorance being bliss, staying responsible on the highway, and visiting the track sporadically.

I'm in the Lehigh Valley area...about 15mins from the Jersey border.

Check out Hooked On Driving (around $300/day last I knew).


Norm

 

[Old 5 Oh]

I would not trade the comfort, ergonomics, visibility and material quality of my GT Premium for a couple of tenths of performance in the Camaro. The Mustang has more performance than I can use, and I love the car. That would not be true if I were uncomfortable, couldn't see out, and felt like I were driving a kiddy toy.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Ive driven both cars. Looks are subjective. The Camaro rides ruffer. That's the trade off that comes with better handling. The Mustang is smoother. The Camaro is about as fast as a tune only mustang. Not some earth shattering difference like the GM faithful in the versus section would lead you to believe. The Camaro still sucks to see out of. The Mustang has much better sight lines in all directions. The interior is still GM cheap in my opinion but at least it's not as bad as the 5th gen Camaros. The SRTs have been faster in a straight line for several years and people aren't running out and buying them for a few tenth difference in the 1/4 mile. Why should the Camaro be any different? Drive them for yourself. I hated the 5th gen Camaro that I used to own. But the wife loved it for some reason. Different strokes.

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