Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

[Grintch]

They sure don't matter as much as people act like they do on the internet. When a car is even just slightly slower, it's total garbage and handles like crap. Often even the pros can't tell which car is faster without looking at the times.

If you are paying an extra $6500-8500 for a faster car, yes the times matter.

Otherwise, save your money and get a standard GT. Then you get all the V8 rumble and street car cred you need. And more than enough performance for the street. Or save even more money, and gas, and get an EcoBoost.

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[ALUSA]

Im sure they could talk randy into ringing them both out. Im not much of a road course guy. But do like his videos.

I like Randy too and he seems really honest while testing a car that he tries to squeeze as much as he can! He also knows the details of every inch of their test track and how to push the car to its limits! Motortrend do favor GM most of the time but they do give credit to others if the car is actually a performer. Hack they even chose GT350R over ZL1 even though the GT350R was the slower car and actually cost more than the ZL1 with its purchase price.

 

[Hack]

If you are paying an extra $6500-8500 for a faster car, yes the times matter a lot less than all the other factors that come into play with a vehicle.

Fixed. If the time is within a couple seconds around a track, you won't feel it in the seat of your pants. What you will notice everyday are things like the interior, ergonomics, styling, etc.

 

[GreenS550]

I'd love to see a comparison on REAL roads. I mean the ones with chuck holes and gravel on the edges. The real world. The story might be quite different.
The visibility on the camaro is the killer for a lot of folks. For me, it's just that it's a GM product and I'm a Ford guy...

 

[ALUSA]

Fixed. If the time is within a couple seconds around a track, you won't feel it in the seat of your pants. What you will notice everyday are things like the interior, ergonomics, styling, etc.

It has to do with your conscious. The stress free, worry free, calm feeling that knowing your car is faster than a B car will make you happy. Doesn't matter if it under performs in the hands of you or someone else. Its the feeling that you made the right choice and spend the money on a faster car. Don't you guys feel this way?

 

[Hack]

It has to do with your conscious. The stress free, worry free, calm feeling that knowing your car is faster than a B car will make you happy. Doesn't matter if it under performs in the hands of you or someone else. Its the feeling that you made the right choice and spend the money on a faster car. Don't you guys feel this way?

Not at all. I feel as though there is always someone who is faster, and if B car is within a few seconds small mods such as suspension bits, tires and wheels or a great driver will make all the difference in the world. The last time I was at the road course there was a highly modified Mini on the track that was nearly as quick as my GT350. I've encountered 80s TT engine swapped cars that were way faster than me.

I focus on enjoying my car and having fun. I don't care if another car is faster. If I like my car I don't have to beat someone in a race (or know that I could beat them in a race) to have a good time - even if I'm just driving to work.

 

[Grintch]

Fixed. If the time is within a couple seconds around a track, you won't feel it in the seat of your pants. What you will notice everyday are things like the interior, ergonomics, styling, etc.

Have you ever driven around a track? You notice when you are getting passed or can't catch the other guy.

You notice when you get a diff temp warning and have to cut your expensive track sessions short.

Plus the styling, ergonomics, interior is essentially the same without the PP2, so no need to pay extra if you don't care about your lap times.

 

[Mountain376]

Fixed. If the time is within a couple seconds around a track, you won't feel it in the seat of your pants. What you will notice everyday are things like the interior, ergonomics, styling, etc.

Interesting.

So, in your mind, if you buy a performance variant of a car, in which that variant costs more than the standard, you wouldn't care if that variant was only 0.5 tenths quicker around most road courses, had a similar 0-60mph time, made the same amount of power, could brake in only 2-feet better and carried only 0.1g more in a corner you wouldn't care? You're big deal would be if the wheels are cool, the tires are wide and make the car look meaner, the extra gauge that displays vital information looks cool, if the Recaro seats are not too supportive (lol) and your view point is so good you don't even have to think about your mirrors (that you never adjust properly anyway)?

If so... you being of that mindset is what kills performance cars for those who really want to enjoy them, having to spend extra money to modify them after buying them.

BTW, "a couple seconds"? That's huge and you'd know that if you ever... ever took your performance car into a performance setting.

 

[Hack]

Have you ever driven around a track? You notice when you are getting passed or can't catch the other guy.

You notice when you get a diff temp warning and have to cut your expensive track sessions short.

Plus the styling, ergonomics, interior is essentially the same without the PP2, so no need to pay extra if you don't care about your lap times.

Yes I have driven around a track. I have a tech pack GT350, so I know all about having heat issues at the track.

Now are you comparing different Mustangs, or Mustang vs. Camaro?

My point was, I drive my car a lot. I have over 20,000 miles on it now. No way would I ever be able to afford to spend enough time at the track in my car to come close to the street miles I've driven. So, if I spend 1-5% of my time at the track, how important should 1 or 2 seconds difference in lap time be to me, vs. other factors such as fun to drive?

Interesting.

So, in your mind, if you buy a performance variant of a car, in which that variant costs more than the standard, you wouldn't care if that variant was only 0.5 tenths quicker around most road courses, had a similar 0-60mph time, made the same amount of power, could brake in only 2-feet better and carried only 0.1g more in a corner you wouldn't care?

I'm saying that performance is part of the characteristics of the car, but it isn't the only characteristic that matters. Should be completely obvious to most people, but here I am explaining it to you.

You're big deal would be if the wheels are cool, the tires are wide and make the car look meaner, the extra gauge that displays vital information looks cool,

I'm not really about looks over performance. I don't think the Mustang has the best styling ever, but I like other features of the car. IMO my 2011 GT was better looking.

if the Recaro seats are not too supportive (lol) and your view point is so good you don't even have to think about your mirrors (that you never adjust properly anyway)?

I get it, you are saying that I'm a big guy and I don't know how to drive. Excellent insults. Well done.

If so... you being of that mindset is what kills performance cars for those who really want to enjoy them, having to spend extra money to modify them after buying them.

You think that my opinion changes what the automakers offer for sale, huh? :lol: I'm not even going to try to explain how wrong you are.

BTW, "a couple seconds"? That's huge and you'd know that if you ever... ever took your performance car into a performance setting.

Wow, lots of cut downs packed into that post!

Most of your conclusions are way off base.

I have driven my car in a performance setting and I have a direct comparison available for you with my GT350 and another GT350 on a track (albeit a small track). A couple seconds can be one or two turns with a better line than the other guy picked. Skip to 11 minutes in.

 

[Mountain376]

1. Yes I have driven around a track. I have a tech pack GT350, so I know all about having heat issues at the track.

Now are you comparing different Mustangs, or Mustang vs. Camaro?

My point was, I drive my car a lot. I have over 20,000 miles on it now. No way would I ever be able to afford to spend enough time at the track in my car to come close to the street miles I've driven. So, if I spend 1-5% of my time at the track, how important should 1 or 2 seconds difference in lap time be to me, vs. other factors such as fun to drive?




2.I'm saying that performance is part of the characteristics of the car, but it isn't the only characteristic that matters. Should be completely obvious to most people, but here I am explaining it to you.
3.I'm not really about looks over performance. I don't think the Mustang has the best styling ever, but I like other features of the car. IMO my 2011 GT was better looking.
4.I get it, you are saying that I'm a big guy and I don't know how to drive. Excellent insults. Well done.
5.You think that my opinion changes what the automakers offer for sale, huh? :lol: I'm not even going to try to explain how wrong you are.
6.Wow, lots of cut downs packed into that post!

7.Most of your conclusions are way off base.

8.I have driven my car in a performance setting and I have a direct comparison available for you with my GT350 and another GT350 on a track (albeit a small track). A couple seconds can be one or two turns with a better line than the other guy picked. Skip to 11 minutes in.

1. His comments are in direct response to your comments about performance not being important on a performance car. If need be, go re-read his comment, then your attack on his comment, and then, finally his retort.

2. Your comments made indication that performance characteristics on an upgraded performance variant was not important. That is clear.

3. The comment was a play on people in general that want performance things on their vehicles solely because they look cool or make their car look like a race car, but do not care at all about the performance of the parts. When I say "performance" I am referring to what the components effect is on the vehicle as a package/system.

Also, I think the S197's, especially the 2013-14, followed by the 2011-12, are the best Mustangs (and of the best American sports/muscle cars at that) outside the 1964.5-70's.

4. I'm sorry you took it that way (in all sincerity), as that is not what I was intending the meaning to be. Simply, that comment was based in the same way as #3... It was not directed to you in specific, but in a general sense.

5. Yes. You're not going to explain how wrong I am? Well, I'm not going to explain how wrong you are. But, I will give you a clue. Ever wonder why the Mustang PP1 isn't as "track-oriented" as one would think it should be? You can deny where I am going with that, but it is something (specifically to that and other Mustang's/packages) that has been touched on and confirmed by various Ford top-level personnel in various interviews over the years.

You are Ford's customer. Your wallet drives their decisions. Your feedback is directly tied to how your wallet opens and closes.

6. If you make arguments that give the impression you aren't familiar with being on-track, that's what you get. :shrug:

7. Oh, they are, now? OK.

8. Proven wrong. You have been on track. Very cool. I hope you enjoyed your car and will continue to do so. I can't watch the video right now, but I'll check it out later.

Question: what if your GT350 had an ABS calibration that let you brake later and harder before going into a corner, giving you the confidence to catch pretty much any other car on track at every corner? Would that make you feel that much more cool? Would you have that much more fun? What if this allowed you to, easily, run 3-seconds faster than all your buddies? Would that make you feel that much better on the purchase of your car, in spending thousands more than a Mustang GT? I'll dig more intimate: What if your car, because of added coolers and special front end/grille and hood additions/modifications allowed you car to never overheat on track, never causing any limp-modes or warning lights? Same questions apply.

I guarantee you'd leave the track, or even "canyon driving", with a bigger grin on your face, you'd have more fun AND you'd feel that much more happy about your purchase - I bet, you'd even think to yourself, "Man, I'm so glad X-OEM did what they did with this car! Knowing what I know now, and experiencing what I just experienced, I'd definitely pay extra for these types of upgrades..."

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

If you are paying an extra $6500-8500 for a faster car, yes the times matter.

Otherwise, save your money and get a standard GT. Then you get all the V8 rumble and street car cred you need. And more than enough performance for the street. Or save even more money, and gas, and get an EcoBoost.

And that's your opinion, which in no way effects my decision on how I'll spend my money. No offense.

Not that I have to justify it to you or any of the other track guys who think anyone who doesn't track shouldn't have this car, but yours aren't the only reasons for buying this car. And it's not just because it's oh so cool either.

It's quite possibly the best GT car on the planet for $50k, and that's all the reason I needed. Track arguments need not apply.

 

[Hellstang]

I may be older than some of you but I feel this is the best time for car guys . The horse power and performance wars are making it better for all of us . I am not a company man I like all American performance cars. Lol

 

[millhouse]

Man I love the "my car when stock is faster than your car when stock" dick swinging that the camaro guys seem to always rest their laurels on occurs. And when someone throws on a wider wheel tire package with a few minor suspension bits and is able to meet or exceed their cars capabilities they spout the…well, “it’s not stock” catch phrase.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for anyone who consistently has to buy the faster stock car to be able to enjoy driving due to their ego being hugely inflated. That is today's Merica though isn’t it. None seem to be able to be satisfied with what they have unless it allows them to look down on others and belittle their decision to purchase an “inferior” product. Those poor, poor Miata guys must have no fun on canyon runs or around the track being soooo slow compared to a camaro.

 

[Hack]

Question: what if your GT350 had an ABS calibration that let you brake later and harder before going into a corner, giving you the confidence to catch pretty much any other car on track at every corner? Would that make you feel that much more cool? Would you have that much more fun? What if this allowed you to, easily, run 3-seconds faster than all your buddies? Would that make you feel that much better on the purchase of your car, in spending thousands more than a Mustang GT? I'll dig more intimate: What if your car, because of added coolers and special front end/grille and hood additions/modifications allowed you car to never overheat on track, never causing any limp-modes or warning lights? Same questions apply.

I'm not going to reply to that whole long book. I was upset that Ford advertised the GT350 as the most track capable Mustang ever and then my car got hot on track on a cool day within 5 minutes or so. It was a real pain to swap out the transmission and add a rear diff cooler to the car. And then having the new parts not covered by warranty sucks even harder. I'm not going to say Ford's builds are perfect or they don't make mistakes/choices that annoy me.

However, Ford did have the balls to put a FPC motor in the GT350, and the brakes and suspension are amazing. I mostly bought the GT350 for the engine. I'm an engine guy, and the Voodoo is worth the extra dough for the GT350 by itself, IMO. All the other improvements over a regular GT are just icing on the cake. I love how the car works on the track, and it is actually awesome to drive every day to work as well. It is super well behaved on the street. The suspension is the perfect combo of firm but not harsh at all. The engine is so fun to play with in stop and go traffic, and everything about the car is great as a driver and now it does great on the track as well.

When I'm on the track I enjoy driving fast and exploring the limits of my car and myself. When I catch someone and have to find a way around them I do feel good about it, but I'm mostly annoyed that I have to slow down because someone is in my way. I usually enjoy the last session of the day the most because there are fewer people on the track and I can focus on the track and my driving.

If there was something changed to the car where it was 3 seconds per lap faster, I'm not sure I would realize or notice the difference on the track. I probably wouldn't. If that change made the car suck during daily driving, I wouldn't want it.

I can see you are maybe saying you want Ford to build a car with rock hard suspension, carbon brakes, plastic seats, no sound deadening, etc. and people like me who want to be comfortable on a daily commute are ruining that. I think you are correct on that. But it's not Ford listening to me because I bought a couple cars from them. It's common sense that most people buy a new car to mostly drive around on the street (top priority) and then some track use is a much lower priority. If I'm low on cash I might skip some track outings, but I'm not going to skip on going to work in the car.

Sorry I feel I'm getting off subject here. I will try to bring it back. When I test drove the Camaro I didn't expect to be able to drive it all out on the track to make a comparison with my Mustang. I drove it on the street. And so I was comparing the two cars driving on the street - also trying to determine the potential of the Camaro on the track without being able to push it too hard. Of course I did some full throttle blasts in the car and took it to some places where the cornering grip was tested. But the bottom line for me was I just didn't enjoy driving the car as much. So... coming back to my original point. A couple seconds better time around a track is nothing compared to the hours and hours spent in the car on the street. That boring engine, low visibility, etc... not interested.

 

[Grimace427]

Man I love the "my car when stock is faster than your car when stock" dick swinging that the camaro guys seem to always rest their laurels on. And when someone throws on a wider wheel tire package with a few minor suspension bits and is able to meet or exceed their cars capabilities they spout the…well, “it’s not stock” catch phrase.

Quite frankly, I feel sorry for anyone who consistently has to buy the faster stock car to be able to enjoy driving due to their ego being hugely inflated. That is todays Merica though isn’t it. None seem to be able to be satisfied with what they have unless it allows them to look down on others and belittle their decision to purchase an “inferior” product. Those poor, poor Miata guys must have no fun on canyon runs or around the track being soooo slow compared to a camaro.

That and dyno-racers seem to be the majority of forum members.

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