Did anyone ever do a Perf Pack 2 vs 1LE test?

[BmacIL]

Yeah the dyno racers are strong here, and they also tend to negate any of the subjective greatness of the best performance cars (tactile feel, the sound, the accessibility of the performance). There are plenty of super fast street cars that are not that awesome to drive on track unless you're a very seasoned rat or a pro/semipro driver (Viper ACR comes to mind). Even comparing the MT and smoking tire reviews: despite being slower, the GT350R is preferred to both the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE, respectively. That's because of how it feels and how it makes one feel rather than the laptime. Unless you're getting something for being a few tenths faster than someone, isn't that all that matters??

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[ALUSA]

Yeah the dyno racers are strong here, and they also tend to negate any of the subjective greatness of the best performance cars (tactile feel, the sound, the accessibility of the performance). There are plenty of super fast street cars that are not that awesome to drive on track unless you're a very seasoned rat or a pro/semipro driver (Viper ACR comes to mind). Even comparing the MT and smoking tire reviews: despite being slower, the GT350R is preferred to both the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE, respectively. That's because of how it feels and how it makes one feel rather than the laptime. Unless you're getting something for being a few tenths faster than someone, isn't that all that matters??

Did Matt really like the GT350R over the ZL1 1LE?

 

[BmacIL]

Did Matt really like the GT350R over the ZL1 1LE?

He did:
[ame]

 

[ALUSA]

He did:

Nice! It looks really uncomfortable driving that zl1 1le on normal roads lol! The suspension is as stiff as a solid rock giving no play on the road! Imagine hitting a pot hole in that thing, better watch out for your head!

 

[BmacIL]

Nice! It looks really uncomfortable driving that zl1 1le on normal roads lol! The suspension is as stiff as a solid rock giving no play on the road! Imagine hitting a pot hole in that thing, better watch out for your head!

Exactly. It's a [heavy and street-legal] racecar.

 

[Hack]

Nice! It looks really uncomfortable driving that zl1 1le on normal roads lol! The suspension is as stiff as a solid rock giving no play on the road! Imagine hitting a pot hole in that thing, better watch out for your head!

If you watch the Motortrend review of the ZL11LE you will see Johnny bouncing all over the place. Same with the Savage Goose review of it. I think the One Take was filmed on an exceptionally smooth road.

 

[w3rkn]

It has to do with your conscious. The stress free, worry free, calm feeling that knowing your car is faster than a B car will make you happy. Doesn't matter if it under performs in the hands of you or someone else. Its the feeling that you made the right choice and spend the money on a faster car. Don't you guys feel this way?

How does one's consciously land on an Camaro..? It is because it is the cheapest handling car they can buy...?

:mullet:

 

[Grintch]

Yeah the dyno racers are strong here, and they also tend to negate any of the subjective greatness of the best performance cars (tactile feel, the sound, the accessibility of the performance). There are plenty of super fast street cars that are not that awesome to drive on track unless you're a very seasoned rat or a pro/semipro driver (Viper ACR comes to mind). Even comparing the MT and smoking tire reviews: despite being slower, the GT350R is preferred to both the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE, respectively. That's because of how it feels and how it makes one feel rather than the laptime. Unless you're getting something for being a few tenths faster than someone, isn't that all that matters??

Don't buy the track special unless you want a track special. But if you do want a track special, then the track performance matters unless you are poser who never takes it to the track.

 

[Grintch]

How does one's consciously land on an Camaro..? It is because it is the cheapest handling car they can buy...?

:mullet:

Because a $40K 1LE (45K list) will give a $70K (60K list) GT350 all it can handle.

But asking for a Mustang as good or better than a 1LE for the same or less money is heracy to many on this site, even though many of them would never trade their GT Premium for a hard edged track special (and thus don't have a dog in this fight).

 

[BmacIL]

Don't buy the track special unless you want a track special. But if you do want a track special, then the track performance matters unless you are poser who never takes it to the track.

Of course, but the accessibility of that performance matters. If it's 0.5s or even 1s per lap faster via a pro driver, but it's more difficult for even an advanced HPDE guy/girl to reach its potential vs its direct competitor, is it not a worse overall performance car for everyone else? Even the best drivers in the world (F1) can succumb to this, and it has been proven many times over the decades. I'm not saying that's the case here with the Camaro, but simply that small deltas in absolute peak performance potential doesn't necessarily mean a reason to buy. All else, equal, yes. When people look back on performance cars of old and desire them, it's not always because they were the fastest or even that they're particularly fast now against contemporaries.

A track special that I can get more out of and is more fun > track special that someone else who gets paid to drive gets more out of/less fun

I have turned my car from a cushy cruiser/GT into something that's much closer to a true sports car. It's compromised. It's quite firm. It's loud. It has vibration here and there from removal/lockout of rubber isolation. I enjoy that and want it. It's not for everyone. I've done that because it's way more fun to drive (and faster) on the track and on a back road.

 

[millhouse]

Because a $40K 1LE (45K list) will give a $70K (60K list) GT350 all it can handle.

By all track metrics, the GT350R thoroughly kicks the 1LE's ass. Over 1.5 seconds faster around Laguna is hardly "giving all it can handle". To say the 1LE gives the GT350R all it can handle is akin to saying the 1LE gives the ZL1 all it can handle...as the GT350R is much closer around the track to the ZL1 than the 1LE is to the GT350R.

 

[millhouse]

Of course, but the accessibility of that performance matters. If it's 0.5s or even 1s per lap faster via a pro driver, but it's more difficult for even an advanced HPDE guy/girl to reach its potential vs its direct competitor, is it not a worse overall performance car for everyone else? Even the best drivers in the world (F1) can succumb to this, and it has been proven many times over the decades. I'm not saying that's the case here with the Camaro, but simply that small deltas in absolute peak performance potential doesn't necessarily mean a reason to buy. All else, equal, yes. When people look back on performance cars of old and desire them, it's not always because they were the fastest or even that they're particularly fast now against contemporaries.

A track special that I can get more out of and is more fun > track special that someone else who gets paid to drive gets more out of/less fun

I have turned my car from a cushy cruiser/GT into something that's much closer to a true sports car. It's compromised. It's quite firm. It's loud. It has vibration here and there from removal/lockout of rubber isolation. I enjoy that and want it. It's not for everyone. I've done that because it's way more fun to drive (and faster) on the track and on a back road.

Agreed, most people don't have the balls (or skill) to come close to push any of these cars close to their limits at the track. For many, it's just inflated ego's of having to have a car that pro drivers can run faster at the track. It boggles many camaro owners mind that people would intentionally choose a slower mustang over a camaro.

 

[Hack]

Don't buy the track special unless you want a track special. But if you do want a track special, then the track performance matters unless you are poser who never takes it to the track.

No one is saying track performance doesn't matter. We are saying that it's not the ONLY thing to consider when buying a car.

Because a $40K 1LE (45K list) will give a $70K (60K list) GT350 all it can handle.

Could be they are similar in lap times on some tracks if all components are kept stock. The GT350 has a lot more power and will walk away on straights. And if you swap tires on the GT350, buh bye!

I'd rather have the longer lasting tires that are on the GT350 anyway. I don't want to have to replace tires too often on my daily driven car.

There are also other factors to consider, IMO. I personally prefer either a regular GT Mustang or a GT350 over the Camaro (any version of it). The Coyote makes more power than the Camaro pushrod V8, and it makes it in a way that IMO is much more enjoyable. The Voodoo has a similar characteristic to the Coyote. Both engines love to rev and they are a lot of fun on the track. The Camaro engine is great for low end torque and I'm sure it's awesome for towing. Not the best for the track, though.

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

Don't buy the track special unless you want a track special. But if you do want a track special, then the track performance matters unless you are poser who never takes it to the track.

Better to be a happy poseur, than a bitter douche.

 

[thehunterooo]

“In my opinion the gt350 is a flop. An embarrassment to ford engineering. And the slowest 530hp car I’ve ever seen.

The only magic behind the voodoo is how it can be slower than a 460 hp gt with an 70hp advantage. Even on the same platform and at a lighter weight. They can’t even outrun a new m6 gt with a weight advantage and 70 more hp. The voodoo is garbage. Slow and unreliable. Better luck next time”

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