Cross-shopping the S550 GT with a BMW M235i

[wjones14]

I have owned my 2005 GT since it was new almost 10 years ago. Prior to that I owned a 1995 Mustang GT, and prior to that a 1987 Mustang GT. So I'm definitely a big fan.

I paid MSRP for the 2005 GT, $27,455. I went to the Ford website and built a 2015 GT Premium with the PP, Premium interior trim, and Navigation; MSRP is now $40,610.

When the price crossed the $40K mark, I started thinking about a BMW. I've been to 7 track days so far with the Mustang, and have seen a lot of Bimmers there and have talked to a lot of owners. I definitely like the BMWs, and especially like the M235i. I have been to the local BMW dealership and looked at 3 different M235i cars this year. I haven't driven the car yet because they don't currently have a manual on the lot, but I have sat in the car and really looked over every part of the car inside and out.

I went to the BMW website to build one, and it starts at $43,100, so it's more than the Mustang, but not by a huge amount. But, then to make it comparable to the Mustang, and what I would want, I added the red leather interior and the navigation system, and it was up to a little over $47,000. Still not too bad. But then my surprise was when I clicked the Accessories tab - I didn't expect to buy any, but there was only 1 listed: the M Performance Limited Slip Differential for $2895. What?!

The limited slip pushed the MSRP to $50,545. Now it's a full $10K more than the comparable virtual Mustang GT that I built.

I didn't even realize the M235i did not come standard with a posi rear end. A Mustang GT without a posi rear end would be absurd, and I would think the BMW without one would also be absurd. Is it?

Not that I do a lot of burnouts with my Mustang. I don't really do any. But I do like the fact that if I do shift hard into 2nd or 3rd gear, the car is leaving two black marks on the road, not one.

Does anyone have experience with a non-posi BMW? I would think this is a must-have "accessory", but is it? Funny thing is, few of the professional reviews online even mention the lack of the limited slip. Or did BMW include it with the cars they shipped for the media?

Bottom line is I could live with the $47K price, but over $50K is a bit much for an entry level BMW, IMO.

Thoughts? :shrug:

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[Mustangchief]

Actually you can get the GT for less. If your not sure which one you want, drive them both, pick which one you like. You ask a bunch of Mustang nuts like me and we'll say get the stang every time.

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

I'm a FORD guy and a BMW guy. For what you get on the GT vs. the M235......no way in the world would I get the M235. Not to mention if you wanna make even more power it will be way way less than the BMW.

I have had multiple BMWs and Mustangs over the years and I currently daily drive a 6 series Vert.

Get the GT....you will not regret it.

 

[OppoLock]

And if you spent $50 on an MCA membership, you would qualify for Ford's X-Plan pricing. That GT specced the way you like it would probably come in just over $38k.

There are plenty reviews of the M135i/235i. They seem to do alright in most situations without an LSD and make heavy use of a brake-based system instead. Of course, the brake-based system is limited when the car's driven hard out of slow corners and at the brink of traction, so you might want to consider the optional one if you plan on buying and tracking it.

I like the M235i, I'm just tired of BMW for now. It's not shouty enough for me and turbochargers suck all of the fun noises out of the experience.

 

[USPSALIMITED]

The electronic lsd which is standard on the 235 is supposed to work really well, that is why the traditional lsd does not come standard.
When I was cross shopping the two cars the advice I got on the BMW forums was to skip the lsd unless I was worried about a slight power loss on track days. On roads I was told it would be hard to detect the difference it makes at reasonable speeds & also all of the nannies have to be disabled to allow the mechanical lsd to work without interference from the electrical.

Pricing wise, I just paid xplan for the Mustang, there is a temporary shortage of supply on the 235's so the dealers are in gouge mode in general. Also you pay through the nose for any aftermarket or replacement parts.

All that said, I'd buy one of each if I could swing it .

 

[thaext]

I was in your shoes before. I actually placed an order for one and, got it at invoice! I was reading Alex Nunez' review from Road and Track and it solidified my decision. According to Noonz, it was the mustang by FAR! I canceled it awhile back. IMHO, the m235i is really expensive!

 

[bpang1]

From the reviews I've read (just google it), people that have driven both a regular M235i and the one with the LSD usually comment that the normal one is fine (since it has the brake-based setup) but the one with the LSD is a lot more confidence inspiring powering out of turns.

I have also been looking at the M235i as a nice car against the Mustang GT. However, I think either a E92 M3 or E92 335is might be better for me.

 

[wjones14]

Appreciate the replies so far. Sounds like maybe the Limited Slip isn't a deal-breaker in a car like the M235i. I need to read those reviews more closely. I think I just assumed that any performance car is going to have a limited slip, and especially a BMW with M badges all over it.

OTOH, I tend to obsess over things, so if I did buy the BMW without the Limited Slip, I would never forget that it didn't have one even if I loved the car in every other way. I hate to "settle" on something that I'm likely to keep for 5 or 10 years.

I don't have to "settle" on the Mustang. Yes, I would like to also add the $1795 401A option to get the HD radio, but that's certainly not as important as a posi rear in my book.

So, looks like another Mustang in my future. :ford: (Unless the 2016 Camaro blows me away when it's revealed in a couple months.)

 

[bpang1]

You do have a point...any car made in this day and age that is meant for performance better god damned have an LSD.

If my 2004 WRX has 2 of them...then BMW can freakin' fit 1 on their RWD cars with any form of "M" plopped on them. It's ridiculous. Though I will admit that my viscous rear diff is certainly not the best for many situations.

 

[USPSALIMITED]

You do have a point...any car made in this day and age that is meant for performance better god damned have an LSD.

If my 2004 WRX has 2 of them...then BMW can freakin' fit 1 on their RWD cars with any form of "M" plopped on them. It's ridiculous. Though I will admit that my viscous rear diff is certainly not the best for many situations.

It does, it is just electronic rather than traditional and is supposed to work very well (car drifts very well, lays down double black marks, all that cool stuff). The folks with 235's say consider adding mechanical lsd if you are going to track your car, else you will probably never get any good out of it. Traditional lsd avoids a slight power loss associated with the electronic lsd applying resistance to the more free wheel as needed, that is supposed to be all you gain, a tick better on lap time if driven hard on the track.

If I would have gone with the 235 I would not have purchased the additional lsd.

 

[w3rkn]

It does, it is just electronic rather than traditional and is supposed to work very well (car drifts very well, lays down double black marks, all that cool stuff). The folks with 235's say consider adding mechanical lsd if you are going to track your car, else you will probably never get any good out of it. Traditional lsd avoids a slight power loss associated with the electronic lsd applying resistance to the more free wheel as needed, that is supposed to be all you gain, a tick better on lap time if driven hard on the track.

If I would have gone with the 235 I would not have purchased the additional lsd.

The LSD is NEEDED, for any spirited driving in BMWs. Trust me...


It is one of the reason I am getting rid of my $52k 135is (M235i), because the rear-end does thing inconsistently.. always trying to correct itself, instead of doing exactly what it did last time. BMW tried to be too perfect and instead removes the driver from any equation.

I need to count on the back end, not adjust for it every time... eLSD are for marketing only. Ironically, that is why the M-cars do have a LSD & non-M cars they cost $3300 bucks. Because BMW knows LSD's are needed.. and will laud it over buyers head, until they spend the money to get a proper feel in their cars.

$3,300 for a LSD... everyone can laugh at that. Even the CEO of BMW.. who is punch drunk on $$ and //M-arketing schemes.





As for the BMW M235i vs Mustang GT ..?

Again, I own essentially a 235i, & the materials in the new Ford are of no less quality than my car. The 2-series is NOT an upscale statement over the Mustang, they share the same grade of materials.

Side by side, there is nothing there, in which BMW can claim a premium for. I predict the M235i going on a huge discount in the spring. It simply doesn't offer a pure experience... so sad that I am looking forward to owning/driving a Ford, over a BMW.

I really hope the BMW M2 impresses.. cuz the GT350 is looking real competent. Unlike the M4 and M235i...


Coincidentally, BMW fired their M-boss last week, over how un-driver like, these new M cars are...

 

[stilesg57]

Having lived with my 330 ZHP for the last ~5 yrs (which is basically what's being replaced by the M235 in "spirit"...a standard model with a few M bits sprinkled on...), I'll say this: get the LSD if ordering a new car. And I agree that at the M235's now ~$50k price, that makes the Mustang the better buy, even with the cachet that the blue and white roundel gets you.

(and yes, even from a guy who hates the classist assholes that the brand attracts, that "you've arrived" aspect of BMW ownership that much of the non-car-people general public bestows upon you is really kinda nice...even if my then 5 year old Bimmer cost me about half what a new base Accord does)

LSD is by no means required with these Bimmers. They're great without them. However, they're excellent with them. If you dropped $3k in my lap and forced me to spend it on the car, it is far and away the FIRST thing I'd spend it on. Not wheels/tires, not boltons, not a lower rear diff (although that's highly recommended and much cheaper than $3k), not even a superchager kit. LSD, period. So if you're starting from scratch, you really should get it.

 

[w3rkn]

Having lived with my 330 ZHP for the last ~5 yrs (which is basically what's being replaced by the M235 in "spirit"...a standard model with a few M bits sprinkled on...), I'll say this: get the LSD if ordering a new car. And I agree that at the M235's now ~$50k price, that makes the Mustang the better buy, even with the cachet that the blue and white roundel gets you.

(and yes, even from a guy who hates the classist assholes that the brand attracts, that "you've arrived" aspect of BMW ownership that much of the non-car-people general public bestows upon you is really kinda nice...even if my then 5 year old Bimmer cost me about half what a new base Accord does)

LSD is by no means required with these Bimmers. They're great without them. However, they're excellent with them. If you dropped $3k in my lap and forced me to spend it on the car, it is far and away the FIRST thing I'd spend it on. Not wheels/tires, not boltons, not a lower rear diff (although that's highly recommended and much cheaper than $3k), not even a superchager kit. LSD, period. So if you're starting from scratch, you really should get it.

Exactly.. a bone stock M235i w/lsd is $47,000 ..! While, a bone stock GT is $33,000..!

Do you know how many performance parts you can buy for a $14,000..? Or, you could just buy a EB and put $20k into that...

BMW is in a world of hurt... the s550 makes their whole 2-series moot.

 

[The Big Kahoona]

As a person who, in the absence of an M2 & GT350, is cross-shopping the M235i & GT, i have to say that some of the answers in this thread are bordering on delusion.

How much time do you spend at the track to actually feel the lack of a mechanical diff? You will not feel the difference on the road, at all. You probably won't even feel the difference on the track, unless you think you're Kimi Raikkonen.

Exactly.. a bone stock M235i w/lsd is $47,000 ..! While, a bone stock GT is $33,000..!

Do you know how many performance parts you can buy for a $14,000..? Or, you could just buy a EB and put $20k into that...

BMW is in a world of hurt... the s550 makes their whole 2-series moot.

I've never owned an automatic car, but if i end up choosing the M235i it'll probably be the first. It's a sweet, sweet box. So before you start talking about $14k in mods, consider how expensive that transmission is. M235i will probably pick up power from bolt-ons a lot easier as well, being factory turbo'd and all.

I could be mistaken, since i haven't driven the '15 GT, but i really think the chances that the GT is damped as well as the BMW are slim to none.

The Coyote though is probably where the Mustang has the BMW beat. Such a brilliant motor. I think i'd give the Mustang the edge on looks as well.

 

[w3rkn]

As a person who, in the absence of an M2 & GT350, is cross-shopping the M235i & GT, i have to say that some of the answers in this thread are bordering on delusion.

How much time do you spend at the track to actually feel the lack of a mechanical diff? You will not feel the difference on the road, at all. You probably won't even feel the difference on the track, unless you think you're Kimi Raikkonen.


I've never owned an automatic car, but if i end up choosing the M235i it'll probably be the first. It's a sweet, sweet box. So before you start talking about $14k in mods, consider how expensive that transmission is. M235i will probably pick up power from bolt-ons a lot easier as well, being factory turbo'd and all.

I could be mistaken, since i haven't driven the '15 GT, but i really think the chances that the GT is damped as well as the BMW are slim to none.

The Coyote though is probably where the Mustang has the BMW beat. Such a brilliant motor. I think i'd give the Mustang the edge on looks as well.

I can feel the lack of mechanical diff, at every street turn... if I so wish.

Matter of fact.. the first thing I did, when I drove a new stang, was a low rpm, semi-torqy roll out of a lot. To get the feel of it's tail kick. A LSD is not some mythical being, it a strait forward thing. Nearly every other car 30 years ago had them, including BMWs. You can EASILY feel the difference.

And no, not Kimi. Ferrari isn't working out well for him, he should be owning Alonzo.. but I did putz around dirt tracks with some crazy finlanders in northern Michigan when I was a kid.. & I do occasionally stay at a Holiday Inn Express.


Secondly, take a look-see at what box is in the 135is... & yet I have a 6m. Cuz I can use my rear-end, whenever I choose!

I am certainly waiting on the M2, to see what it brings. Along with GM & Ford's 9 & 10sp transmission collaboration will bring. But personally I am not a fan of automatics/DCT, but will most certainly give the next gen a good shake.

A manual to me, isn't so much about shifting, as it is about clutchwork.
Feeding the pavement the exact amount of torque... feeling pebbles and adhesion & slip..


Lastly, understand this.. a $32,000 EB with $3k in Ford Racing Parts is capable of doing this:
[ame]


So who is delusional..? A $49,000 235i is almost as much as the GT350..

Do you see now...? See how much $14k in mods get you on a GT? It gets you a GT350. (& will probably come optioned with the new GM/Ford tranny.)

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