Cross-shopping the S550 GT with a BMW M235i

[USPSALIMITED]

Ford would of course love for us to believe the quality is the same as BMW Audi etc but there are a lot of shared parts on a 5.0 with a 26k v6/eb4, so something has got to give here and there else no proffit, or, BMW audi/merc are making a killing.

BMW right now would like us to believe that their reliability matches Fords, so I think 'quality' is kind of a what is important to you thing. Not to say that their aren't better and worse models with both brands.

The shared parts & cost comparison is interesting. The 235 shares parts with 228's , base 228's are right at the 26k number quoted for Ford (if purchased in Germany), so it is a lot like there is no real difference in manufacturing cost.

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[tbonez3858]

The BMW 235i comes out next year, when BMW removes the M235i before the M2 comes out bro...

The M235i is essentially is a 235is. (The "M" stand for marketing.)



A LSD is needed in both for any amount of spirited driving. If you can't feel it, or don't know.. then all the power to you. Any car would pretty much do.

You are 100% right its not a full M car but lets be real that debate has been beaten to death. The purist just cant let it go. I really dont care if its an M car or not. Its not Giesel Bundechen but it is Jennifer Anniston. At the end of the day when you wake up next to Jennifer how depressed are you that it isnt Giesel? Would you have a smile after a long hot night with Jennifer (M235)...I bet you would. The M purist really need to let it go. I dont find it ironic one bit that the fight over the naming of this car comes out of the most elitist and name brand focused bunch of hive minded car owners in existence...I really wish the 235 wasnt made by BMW because I really like the car but I really dont want to be lumped in with the BMW crew.

If you can stress the limits of the M235i without an LSD on public roads you are driving ludicrously and are a danger to everyone on the road. Your speeds would be so far in excess of the speed limit it isnt worth mentioning. Im all up for spirited driving but if you actually need the LSD on the street you probably should spend a few days in jail from driving offensives to ponder if you should be using that car to the extent an LSD is required.

The M235i is blast and the M2 will be even more fun. I would be willing to wager the M2 will come with an LSD as well.

 

[tbonez3858]

BMW right now would like us to believe that their reliability matches Fords, so I think 'quality' is kind of a what is important to you thing. Not to say that their aren't better and worse models with both brands.

The shared parts & cost comparison is interesting. The 235 shares parts with 228's , base 228's are right at the 26k number quoted for Ford (if purchased in Germany), so it is a lot like there is no real difference in manufacturing cost.

Im really anxious to see the S550s quality. I know the M235 has very nice quality and some really nice touch points. I dont think BMWs reliability is in the same planetary system as Fords. Up until this time I havent seen a Ford that could compete with BMWs materials, however. I've owned multiple Fords and sat in dozens and I've never walked away with a feeling Ford was close to BMW in terms of interior quality.

This is definitely going to be interesting and my wallet REALLY hopes the Mustang is great to drive and the quality is there...

 

[Fenderaddict2]

Im really anxious to see the S550s quality. I know the M235 has very nice quality and some really nice touch points. I dont think BMWs reliability is in the same planetary system as Fords. Up until this time I havent seen a Ford that could compete with BMWs materials, however. I've owned multiple Fords and sat in dozens and I've never walked away with a feeling Ford was close to BMW in terms of interior quality.

This is definitely going to be interesting and my wallet REALLY hopes the Mustang is great to drive and the quality is there...

Yeah, I never understood the big three approach to cars. Nice design outside to lure you in, but horrible quality inside (where you spend most of your time) to ensure you're not likely to buy again. Love to meet the boob who initiated that strategy.

 

[OppoLock]

You are 100% right its not a full M car but lets be real that debate has been beaten to death. The purist just cant let it go. I really dont care if its an M car or not. Its not Giesel Bundechen but it is Jennifer Anniston. At the end of the day when you wake up next to Jennifer how depressed are you that it isnt Giesel? Would you have a smile after a long hot night with Jennifer (M235)...I bet you would. The M purist really need to let it go. I dont find it ironic one bit that the fight over the naming of this car comes out of the most elitist and name brand focused bunch of hive minded car owners in existence...I really wish the 235 wasnt made by BMW because I really like the car but I really dont want to be lumped in with the BMW crew.

If you can stress the limits of the M235i without an LSD on public roads you are driving ludicrously and are a danger to everyone on the road. Your speeds would be so far in excess of the speed limit it isnt worth mentioning. Im all up for spirited driving but if you actually need the LSD on the street you probably should spend a few days in jail from driving offensives to ponder if you should be using that car to the extent an LSD is required.

The M235i is blast and the M2 will be even more fun. I would be willing to wager the M2 will come with an LSD as well.

I get by without an LSD but wish it came with one. I drive without TCS when there aren't cars around and I want to have fun. Let's be real, you can swing a rear end and power out of a low speed corner without putting yourself and everyone in danger if you're smart about it. What sucks about the open rear end is when you have breached the limits of traction, it's damn near impossible to keep it going. I'll get a nice arc going to allow maybe 1-2 seconds of countersteer, then it's all one tire fire once the car starts burning up the inside. Worst when it's wet out and you can hear that tire getting murdered while you're going all of nowhere.

 

[OppoLock]

And straight line acceleration is an exercise in torque juggling. It's such a lame feeling when the car's kicking back and forth to go straight.

 

[USPSALIMITED]

Ford was close to BMW in terms of interior quality.

I think they are both great cars and we are lucky to be able to talk about the opportunity to own one. I could be very happy with either one.

That said, there is a big honkin, Wal-Mart electronics bin looking, mid sized iPad thing right in the upper middle of the dash of the BMW's. You can't fold it down or do anything similar to make it go away. At some point during a review of interior aesthetic virtues, somebody somewhere has got to say "hey, what about this great big stink turd looking thing right in front here?".

 

[Boss Man]

BMW right now would like us to believe that their reliability matches Fords, so I think 'quality' is kind of a what is important to you thing. Not to say that their aren't better and worse models with both brands.

The shared parts & cost comparison is interesting. The 235 shares parts with 228's , base 228's are right at the 26k number quoted for Ford (if purchased in Germany), so it is a lot like there is no real difference in manufacturing cost.

BMW reliability and some very costly repairs after warranty are certainly something to consider if you plan on keeping past the 4 years 50k miles of free maintenance. Perhaps the cost to replace various parts that get worn out when tracking the car should be factored in.

Interesting note on the German pricing on the 228, the starting price is 29,800 euros which is around 37k USD.

If tracking the car is the top priority I would get the S550, I just think there is more potential from the starting point. M235i is a very satisfying car to drive, particularly after bumping up your boost a tad it is no joke. It is a GREAT DD, that delivers similar performance and still gets me a combined 24mpg's with zero maintenance cost.

Wish I could afford one of each.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Bottom line is I could live with the $47K price, but over $50K is a bit much for an entry level BMW, IMO.

Thoughts? :shrug:

USAA's car buying service shows me actual sales prices which are about $4-$5K below MSRP for M235i's.

 

[Boss Man]

I think they are both great cars and we are lucky to be able to talk about the opportunity to own one. I could be very happy with either one.

That said, there is a big honkin, Wal-Mart electronics bin looking, mid sized iPad thing right in the upper middle of the dash of the BMW's. You can't fold it down or do anything similar to make it go away. At some point during a review of interior aesthetic virtues, somebody somewhere has got to say "hey, what about this great big stink turd looking thing right in front here?".

ha, At first I was just glad the monitor did not obstruct my view of the road when I first sat in it, in fact it does not obstruct the view of the hood. The monitor eventually grows on you when you realize all the nifty crap you can display.

Audi, Bmw and Merc are all putting their consoles in that location, a big reason why is to help keep your vision as close as possible to the road and it does help. Lexus has the biggest freaking console of them all but it is integrated into the dash. It does look better IMO but your eyes have to wander a bit further down for viewing. Really the only thing that I'm really saying "come on man" with BMW is not putting HUD in the 2 series.

Not the most beautiful piece of the interior but from a functional standpoint and the vehicle in motion, the location starts making sense if your messing with it. Radio presets turn into presets for anything you want to display on that monitor or can be radio presets if you choose to waste them all for that.

 

[w3rkn]

traded in a 2012 5.0 for the M235i and was a bit surprised to find a LSD as a pricey add on. WTF BMW on that one but most folks are doing quite well without it but will admit they could do better with a mechanical LSD.

It will be interesting to see how these two cars match up, the Mustang has really stepped up its game and closes the gap in a lot of areas. Ford would of course love for us to believe the quality is the same as BMW Audi etc but there are a lot of shared parts on a 5.0 with a 26k v6/eb4, so something has got to give here and there else no proffit, or, BMW audi/merc are making a killing.

The balance, the nimbleness, the smoothness, the comfort, the tech, just to name a few were areas that really impressed. Slightly nicer interiors can be had on other BMW models but the 235i interior is quite nice but leather under trim of dash would have been nice.

Really the only thing I missed about my s197 was the coyote engine (and that carries over) but that was fixed with a tune.

Bottom line is test drives will be needed to really compare the two so your answers should come in the next few weeks.

The m235i will hold me off for the next 3 years at which time the SVT models and the m2 will be out. Watching the nurburgring videos of the two have been interesting. The SVT seems to be more brute and the m2 more finesse, while eating up the track. Got to love the brute tactics but we shall see how things look when the dust clears.

Well said. I am uber interested in the s550, so I am even more interested in waiting to see what developes. I still have a sweet ride to pound on while I wait & see what the M2 brings..

If bmw falters, I am all over a SVT. (hopefully a turbo v6 version )

 

[w3rkn]

You are 100% right its not a full M car but lets be real that debate has been beaten to death. The purist just cant let it go. I really dont care if its an M car or not. Its not Giesel Bundechen but it is Jennifer Anniston. At the end of the day when you wake up next to Jennifer how depressed are you that it isnt Giesel? Would you have a smile after a long hot night with Jennifer (M235)...I bet you would. The M purist really need to let it go. I dont find it ironic one bit that the fight over the naming of this car comes out of the most elitist and name brand focused bunch of hive minded car owners in existence...I really wish the 235 wasnt made by BMW because I really like the car but I really dont want to be lumped in with the BMW crew.

If you can stress the limits of the M235i without an LSD on public roads you are driving ludicrously and are a danger to everyone on the road. Your speeds would be so far in excess of the speed limit it isnt worth mentioning. Im all up for spirited driving but if you actually need the LSD on the street you probably should spend a few days in jail from driving offensives to ponder if you should be using that car to the extent an LSD is required.

The M235i is blast and the M2 will be even more fun. I would be willing to wager the M2 will come with an LSD as well.

Who you calling a purist..?
I was making phun of people being caught up in the marketing behind the M235i. Perhaps you've just rambled on about it... because you are unaware, or defending a sore spot. (?)

Ironically, the M235i is going away next year (235i)... nothing will actually change in the car. So why is the inaugural year is it being called a M235i... derp, because of //Marketing. Not because I come off as a purist. Grow up..!


Secondly, what does "If you can stress the limits of the M235i without an LSD on public roads you are driving ludicrously and are a danger to everyone on the road... Your speeds would be so far in excess of the speed limit it isnt worth mentioning. Im all up for spirited driving but if you actually need the LSD on the street you probably should spend a few days in jail from driving offensives to ponder if you should be using that car to the extent an LSD is required. " mean...?

I am in utter awe of your comments. What the frak are you talking about...?

Understand.. I can feel the difference of having a LSD, or not. Even under 5mph, or turning out of my driveway, or any turn I want to drop the back end out. Doesn't have to be noisy, or obnoxious.. you just have to know the balance of the car, etc to make it work and have fun with it.

Apparently you have zero idea what a LSD is, or does.. :tsk:

 

[tbonez3858]

Who you calling a purist..?
I was making phun of people being caught up in the marketing behind the M235i. Perhaps you've just rambled on about it... because you are unaware, or defending a sore spot. (?)

Ironically, the M235i is going away next year (235i)... nothing will actually change in the car. So why is the inaugural year is it being called a M235i... derp, because of //Marketing. Not because I come off as a purist. Grow up..!


Secondly, what does "If you can stress the limits of the M235i without an LSD on public roads you are driving ludicrously and are a danger to everyone on the road... Your speeds would be so far in excess of the speed limit it isnt worth mentioning. Im all up for spirited driving but if you actually need the LSD on the street you probably should spend a few days in jail from driving offensives to ponder if you should be using that car to the extent an LSD is required. " mean...?

I am in utter awe of your comments. What the frak are you talking about...?

Understand.. I can feel the difference of having a LSD, or not. Even under 5mph, or turning out of my driveway, or any turn I want to drop the back end out. Doesn't have to be noisy, or obnoxious.. you just have to know the balance of the car, etc to make it work and have fun with it.

Apparently you have zero idea what a LSD is, or does.. :tsk:

Its not a sore spot because I dont own one. If the Mustang is as good as I hope it will be, I wont ever own one. I've never personally owned BMW so Im about as detached from the ridiculous "M" argument as I could get and whenever I see it brought up I cringe.

I've not read a single thing about the M designation going away next year when the M2 is released. There is speculation on the boards but unless BMW has released something in the last few days I havent seen it. Please post up a link because I would genuinely be interested in the information.

I will state it again. You dont need an LSD in the 235 on public roads. The only time you would need it would be in bad weather or to "save you". Go look at Randy Pobst comparison video of the CLA45 and the 235. That hot lap around Willow was maniacal and NO WAY you can get close to the limits of that car on public roads without endangering everyone. Until you can pull track times and drive the car in that manner then you dont need an LSD on the road for performance. An LSD is a dealer installed option and you can solve the problem with your wallet. Seems like there is a solution to what you feel is a problem. The only argument left is that the 235 should come with an LSD stock from the factory and I agree it would be much better if it did. The Mustang "should" come blown from the factory, weighed 3400 pounds and had magnetic shocks all for 34k. We can all dream about how cars "should" come from the factory, right?

Go to 8 minutes....No need in arguing a LSD is needed on the public roads when the following level of performance is achieved on a track without one..

[ame]

This is the end of the line for me and this discussion, however. Im a lurker on several forums you are on (2addicts is one of them). I've already read your threads about the 235 so I feel confident I know your position on the car. I know your BMW "pedigree" and I know why you feel you are entitled to your opinion. I dont really need or want to be involved with a 50 page thread discussing the car, however. The 235 reviews are amazing, the owners have one of the highest satisfaction rates and Randy Pobst calls it the best BMW in 10 years. There is a lot of evidence that runs contrary to what appears to be your opinion on this car...What really matters to me is that when I shut that car off I have a huge grin on my face so debating the 235 with me is pretty useless. I hope the Mustang is capable of achieving the same thing for me.

 

[wjones14]

Wow, that video was really fun. Thanks for posting. Randy Pobst is the ultimate, and always explains everything in crystal clear terms, even for non-racers.

This might be a dumb question, but how do we know the BMW they rode in did not have the M Performance Limited Slip Differential installed? I didn't hear a mention of it one way or the other, unless I missed it.

 

[tbonez3858]

Wow, that video was really fun. Thanks for posting. Randy Pobst is the ultimate, and always explains everything in crystal clear terms, even for non-racers.

This might be a dumb question, but how do we know the BMW they rode in did not have the M Performance Limited Slip Differential installed? I didn't hear a mention of it one way or the other, unless I missed it.

I don't think the LSD was released at the time of the video....also note how many times both reviewers say "fun" or "smiled" in that review when referencing the 235. Those are the exact sentiments I had when I have driven the 235.

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