Covid vaccinations stopped for under 50 and other science updates

[Burkey]

In the beginning, here in the States, it was encouraged by admins to call any death who tested positive to be called death from covid. There was a monetary incentive for this since the government funded ER non-insurance payments to the hospital was partly determined by the number of covid deaths. If the person who died had covid and no insurance the hospital called it "from" covid to get a larger check. Most followed directions and since the on call Dr has no idea if the patient is insured or not, called them all "death by covid"

Some think it was a conspiracy to increase the number of covid deaths. In reality it was self preservation. Follow the money.

Yes it really happened and the video is a whistle blower.

Did the whistleblower actually cite the evidence for this?
Don't get me wrong, I’m totally willing to accept that it may have happened, but my beliefs require EVIDENCE, not claims.

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[K4fxd]

I know the policy of one hospital and physicians group.
I don't know how big this group is but there are 7 hospitals in a 3 county area and this group is the largest in a 7 county area.

If you want direct physical evidence you need to dig it up yourself. I know it happened and that Chicago spokesperson confirmed it was not only this physicians group.

 

[bryyce62]

Did the whistleblower actually cite the evidence for this?
Don't get me wrong, I’m totally willing to accept that it may have happened, but my beliefs require EVIDENCE, not claims.

I completely agree with Dan.

This evidence you require is not going to be available with a cursory google search. The CDC or NIH does not publish that data, for obvious reasons.

Whistleblowers don't necessarily have to have statistical data to expose wrongdoing.
I have extended family, working for a large midwest University hospital, tell me the same things that K4fxd has asserted. I know it has happened.

 

[sk47]

Did the whistleblower actually cite the evidence for this?
Don't get me wrong, I’m totally willing to accept that it may have happened, but my beliefs require EVIDENCE, not claims.

Hello; In a way I am pleased you went so far down this "prove it to me path" again on this particular subject. Such a tactic is not new from you. I have seen it several times before. You just keep demanding more and more evidence. Kinds reminds me of a child who keeps asking "why".
Another population of members have now seen another of your tactics.

Go back a few posts and read the bit i transcribed a few times. Seems the wording does not leave much doubt, but somehow you manage to question the meaning.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; In a way I am pleased you went so far down this "prove it to me path" again on this particular subject. Such a tactic is not new from you. I have seen it several times before. You just keep demanding more and more evidence. Kinds reminds me of a child who keeps asking "why".
Another population of members have now seen another of your tactics.

Go back a few posts and read the bit i transcribed a few times. Seems the wording does not leave much doubt, but somehow you manage to question the meaning.

I’m sorry, but I won’t apologise for holding a stronger evidentiary standard than you do.
Being easily convinced on the basis of minimal or flimsy evidence is precisely how people get duped.
Do you think flat earthers are genuine idiots or are they just easily convinced, gullible people?
How do you think religion operates?

It’s interesting that you should try and shame me for asking questions. As a former science teacher, the discipline you supposedly “taught” (I’m using that term loosely at this point) is the embodiment of that philosophy. Question everything, all the time, demand evidence. Above all else though, try and prove yourself wrong.

Did you attempt to shame the kids in your class for having legitimate questions and demanding evidence before forming their understanding?

 

[sk47]

I’m sorry, but I won’t apologise for holding a stronger evidentiary standard than you do.
Being easily convinced on the basis of minimal or flimsy evidence is precisely how people get duped.
Do you think flat earthers are genuine idiots or are they just easily convinced, gullible people?
How do you think religion operates?

It’s interesting that you should try and shame me for asking questions. As a former science teacher, the discipline you supposedly “taught” (I’m using that term loosely at this point) is the embodiment of that philosophy. Question everything, all the time, demand evidence. Above all else though, try and prove yourself wrong.

Did you attempt to shame the kids in your class for having legitimate questions and demanding evidence before forming their understanding?

Hello; Thanks again for showing a few more of the tactics you use. First being your last few posts have the effect of deflecting the thread topic into a consuming series of back and Forths. Just admit there is enough evidence that deaths were purposely reported as Covid deaths even when clearly due to other reasons without the caveats that you "require" more evidence.
Makes a person wonder how you came to be convinced enough to champion some of the things you do champion. Some of which are proven to be flawed or just outright wrong. How did these flaws slip by your superior evidence gathering?

Next you illustrate how superior you feel over those of us you argue against. You think we are easily duped, are possible idiots or are gullible. Even managed to throw in a dig at religion. Over the years you have thrown out put downs and name calling at most any who challenge your opinions. Amazing that, so far, all who oppose your notions are so greatly deficient in character or intelligence in your mind. There are literally years of your put down posts to draw from.

Last bit is a slightly altered rehash of the "scientific method" put downs you and a couple of others tried out in the past. I was drawn into a defense in the past just to have you and the others do a series of spins and twists which went on and on. Get us back to the tactic of deflecting a thread topic. I will not get drawn into such a black hole again. The members who read my posts can decide for themselves about my competence.

You treat this forum like a high school debate exercise. Using any sort of twist, spin or word play and never conceding a point. For a time, deaths were officially counted as Covid deaths even tho it was clear the actual cause of death was not covid.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; Thanks again for showing a few more of the tactics you use. First being your last few posts have the effect of deflecting the thread topic into a consuming series of back and Forths. Just admit there is enough evidence that deaths were purposely reported as Covid deaths even when clearly due to other reasons without the caveats that you "require" more evidence.
Makes a person wonder how you came to be convinced enough to champion some of the things you do champion. Some of which are proven to be flawed or just outright wrong. How did these flaws slip by your superior evidence gathering?

Next you illustrate how superior you feel over those of us you argue against. You think we are easily duped, are possible idiots or are gullible. Even managed to throw in a dig at religion. Over the years you have thrown out put downs and name calling at most any who challenge your opinions. Amazing that, so far, all who oppose your notions are so greatly deficient in character or intelligence in your mind. There are literally years of your put down posts to draw from.

Last bit is a slightly altered rehash of the "scientific method" put downs you and a couple of others tried out in the past. I was drawn into a defense in the past just to have you and the others do a series of spins and twists which went on and on. Get us back to the tactic of deflecting a thread topic. I will not get drawn into such a black hole again. The members who read my posts can decide for themselves about my competence.

You treat this forum like a high school debate exercise. Using any sort of twist, spin or word play and never conceding a point. For a time, deaths were officially counted as Covid deaths even tho it was clear the actual cause of death was not covid.

My tactics are pretty simple. I ask you to defend the positions you hold with supporting evidence, you refuse to do so, then you have a sook about it.

Rinse, repeat.

Yes, there would’ve most certainly been some inaccurate reporting of covid deaths. It seems almost entirely improbable that every single case would’ve been accurately reported.
Can we agree on that one very simple likelihood?

The question then becomes, was it predominantly deliberate or simply the result of clerical errors, given that on average, during 2020, an extra 1,000 death certificates were being issued each day for Coronavirus alone, without worrying about the added deaths from guns and road fatalities….

You seem convinced that it’s the result of malice.
I‘m not convinced because the evidence hasn’t been presented to me, nor can I find it anywhere other than the stuff you guys have presented which frankly, isn’t that compelling to someone who isn’t already convinced. Confirmation bias happens.

Quick reminder that the default position is to reserve belief until adequate evidence has been presented, which I’m still waiting for.

What I’m trying to explain to you is that I’m open to the possibility that there may well be examples of nefarious intent. In fact, it’s quite probable that there may be examples of people doing just that, but without the evidence, I simply can’t hold a positive position here.

Finally, I’m not trying to win a debate.
Instead, I’m desperately trying to encourage you to PRESENT THE FUCKING EVIDENCE that shows an abundance of wilful intent in skewing covid figures. If it’s that abundant, it should be pretty damn easy. Yes?

The paper trail should be easy enough to follow. Nearly every single person has a camera in their pocket. Are you telling me that the people finding this stuff didn’t have enough smarts to actually get some photos or video of the stuff they were seeing?
Surely the internet would be flooded with thousands of images showing exactly what you’re claiming…...
Yes?

1. As we already established, the number of gun deaths went up in 2020.
2. Road fatalities in 2020 went up around 7% compared to 2019, (2,500 extra deaths, 38,800 total)
3. Road fatalities went up again in 2021, this time a 10% increase over 2020 (4,100 extra, 42,900 total)

Given these basic stats, it seems weird to me that you can’t present the evidence for the things you’re espousing, but worse than that, the data seems to show distinct increases in deaths from the types of causes that you’re claiming covid was attributed to.

Are you saying that road fatalities actually went up say 14% instead of the reported 7% in 2020?
Let’s assume they did, that would represent an inaccuracy in reporting of ~ 4,100 deaths from the road fatality ledger into the covid ledger.
Total (reported) covid deaths in the US for 2020 = roughly 370,000.

In other words, we’re talking a 1% error or thereabouts.
I’d say that’s pretty much what you’d expect to see when you’ve got an unprecedented death rate happening. I’m not convinced that it demonstrates any level of “conspiracy”.

Hanlon’s razor says that we should “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity” (or in this case, simple human error).

Satisfied?

 

[K4fxd]

9% increase in alcohol related crashes. I wonder if that can be attributed to lock downs and masking?

Speeding related crashes were also up, wonder if this can be attributed to lock downs? Less traffic more opportunity to drive fast?

Traffic deaths and covid deaths can overlap.

Again I seriously don't think there was any malicious intent. Other than to pad the profits of the hospitals. Although I do believe there are many in positions of power that were giddy at the level of control they wielded over us. So I can see a reason to Dr the books so to speak.

 

[Bulldog9]

I'm 59. If I feel sick I treat it like EVERY other stinking cold I've had in life. Never again will I play this mas hysteria game of social experimentation and gov control. THEY have created the hysteria. My job forced two jabs but that's it. Will not take another unless forced, but they force a flu shot too. I take them for only that reason, no other.

 

[Burkey]

9% increase in alcohol related crashes. I wonder if that can be attributed to lock downs and masking?

Speeding related crashes were also up, wonder if this can be attributed to lock downs? Less traffic more opportunity to drive fast?

Traffic deaths and covid deaths can overlap.

Again I seriously don't think there was any malicious intent. Other than to pad the profits of the hospitals. Although I do believe there are many in positions of power that were giddy at the level of control they wielded over us. So I can see a reason to Dr the books so to speak.

Finally we can agree on something
Not sure what you mean by Covid deaths and traffic deaths can overlap though

 

[sk47]

Seems legit.

"Ngozi Ogbunamiri Ezike, an internist and pediatrician, was the director of the Illinois Department of Public Health from January 2019 to March 2022."

My tactics are pretty simple. I ask you to defend the positions you hold with supporting evidence, you refuse to do so, then you have a sook about it.

Rinse, repeat.

Yes, there would’ve most certainly been some inaccurate reporting of covid deaths. It seems almost entirely improbable that every single case would’ve been accurately reported.
Can we agree on that one very simple likelihood?

The question then becomes, was it predominantly deliberate or simply the result of clerical errors, given that on average, during 2020, an extra 1,000 death certificates were being issued each day for Coronavirus alone, without worrying about the added deaths from guns and road fatalities….

You seem convinced that it’s the result of malice.
I‘m not convinced because the evidence hasn’t been presented to me, nor can I find it anywhere other than the stuff you guys have presented which frankly, isn’t that compelling to someone who isn’t already convinced. Confirmation bias happens.

Quick reminder that the default position is to reserve belief until adequate evidence has been presented, which I’m still waiting for.

What I’m trying to explain to you is that I’m open to the possibility that there may well be examples of nefarious intent. In fact, it’s quite probable that there may be examples of people doing just that, but without the evidence, I simply can’t hold a positive position here.

Finally, I’m not trying to win a debate.
Instead, I’m desperately trying to encourage you to PRESENT THE FUCKING EVIDENCE that shows an abundance of wilful intent in skewing covid figures. If it’s that abundant, it should be pretty damn easy. Yes?

The paper trail should be easy enough to follow. Nearly every single person has a camera in their pocket. Are you telling me that the people finding this stuff didn’t have enough smarts to actually get some photos or video of the stuff they were seeing?
Surely the internet would be flooded with thousands of images showing exactly what you’re claiming…...
Yes?

1. As we already established, the number of gun deaths went up in 2020.
2. Road fatalities in 2020 went up around 7% compared to 2019, (2,500 extra deaths, 38,800 total)
3. Road fatalities went up again in 2021, this time a 10% increase over 2020 (4,100 extra, 42,900 total)

Given these basic stats, it seems weird to me that you can’t present the evidence for the things you’re espousing, but worse than that, the data seems to show distinct increases in deaths from the types of causes that you’re claiming covid was attributed to.

Are you saying that road fatalities actually went up say 14% instead of the reported 7% in 2020?
Let’s assume they did, that would represent an inaccuracy in reporting of ~ 4,100 deaths from the road fatality ledger into the covid ledger.
Total (reported) covid deaths in the US for 2020 = roughly 370,000.

In other words, we’re talking a 1% error or thereabouts.
I’d say that’s pretty much what you’d expect to see when you’ve got an unprecedented death rate happening. I’m not convinced that it demonstrates any level of “conspiracy”.

Hanlon’s razor says that we should “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity” (or in this case, simple human error).

Satisfied?

Hello; You reply above is mostly BS and spin. Had to go back to post # 36 to find the post with the "director of the Illinois Department of Public Health from January 2019 to March 2022." A top state official saying that Deaths from causes other than Covid are counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time. You reply in post # 67 and still do not accept what the state official said in public in front of TV cameras. Thing is they got caught in this and far as i know have stopped doing that bogus counting.
I applaud the lady for being honest and spilling the beans so to speak.

My excuse for diving into these topics is i am old and retired with not much that requires my time. You are a known quantity by many on here. Deal with it.

 

[Burkey]

"Ngozi Ogbunamiri Ezike, an internist and pediatrician, was the director of the Illinois Department of Public Health from January 2019 to March 2022."



Hello; You reply above is mostly BS and spin. Had to go back to post # 36 to find the post with the "director of the Illinois Department of Public Health from January 2019 to March 2022." A top state official saying that Deaths from causes other than Covid are counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time. You reply in post # 67 and still do not accept what the state official said in public in front of TV cameras. Thing is they got caught in this and far as i know have stopped doing that bogus counting.
I applaud the lady for being honest and spilling the beans so to speak.

My excuse for diving into these topics is i am old and retired with not much that requires my time. You are a known quantity by many on here. Deal with it.

It seems that the concept of nuance is lost on you.
Perhaps if you quit using the language of absolutes I might be able to agree with you.

As statement like
”A top state official saying that Deaths from causes other than Covid are counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time.”

reads like: “Every person who died with covid was reported as a covid death”
Simply inserting a word or two can change the meaning entirely, like this:

”A top state official says that SOME Deaths from causes other than Covid are being MISTAKENLY counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time of death, but she also mentions that they’re trying to rectify the situation wherever possible”

Do you see the difference?

Here’s a quote from Ezike:

:“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.”

So yes, there were issues with Covid reporting (as most would expect) but that doesn’t mean that there was some systemic denial of the situation or that they weren’t doing their best to investigate and repair as required.

Ezike continues:

“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

Above all else, Ezike said that the state is striving for as much accuracy as possible, presenting a true picture of what is going on statewide when reporting on the number of cases and fatalities related to the virus.”

Seems odd to me that her words don’t quite line up with the (potentially very carefully edited) video that you’re using as evidence.

If you take a clip of someone speaking and remove enough context from either end, you can make them say nearly anything you want. But you know this already. You’re just failing to recognise it in this instance.
Is it because you already believe it and don‘t
like to change your mind when presented with evidence that perhaps challenges your position?

You keep asserting that it was deliberate and yet you’ve provided NOUGHT to prove that. Bring the evidence or give up.

 

[sk47]

It seems that the concept of nuance is lost on you.
Perhaps if you quit using the language of absolutes I might be able to agree with you.

As statement like
”A top state official saying that Deaths from causes other than Covid are counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time.”

reads like: “Every person who died with covid was reported as a covid death”
Simply inserting a word or two can change the meaning entirely, like this:

”A top state official says that SOME Deaths from causes other than Covid are being MISTAKENLY counted as Covid deaths if the person happened to be infected at the time of death, but she also mentions that they’re trying to rectify the situation wherever possible”

Do you see the difference?

Here’s a quote from Ezike:

:“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.”

So yes, there were issues with Covid reporting (as most would expect) but that doesn’t mean that there was some systemic denial of the situation or that they weren’t doing their best to investigate and repair as required.

Ezike continues:

“We are trying to make sure that things that aren’t related at all to the COVID diagnosis are removed, but if someone has another illness, like heart disease, and then had a stroke or other event, it’s not as easy to separate that and say COVID didn’t exacerbate that existing illness. That would not be removed from the count,” she added.

Above all else, Ezike said that the state is striving for as much accuracy as possible, presenting a true picture of what is going on statewide when reporting on the number of cases and fatalities related to the virus.”

Seems odd to me that her words don’t quite line up with the (potentially very carefully edited) video that you’re using as evidence.

If you take a clip of someone speaking and remove enough context from either end, you can make them say nearly anything you want. But you know this already. You’re just failing to recognise it in this instance.
Is it because you already believe it and don‘t
like to change your mind when presented with evidence that perhaps challenges your position?

You keep asserting that it was deliberate and yet you’ve provided NOUGHT to prove that. Bring the evidence or give up.

Hello; As I and others have stated that sort of counting no longer happens. They got found out or rather it became generally known and they stopped. Point is and has been it did happen.

Another point. I did not post the video. I did take some time to transcribe the words. Thing is as far as I can tell that particular short segment does not appear to have been altered. By that I mean it does not seem to have been put together from other bits. It seems to be a continuous and whole segment. Is it the entire press conference? No there were parts before and after. Also, the first i saw any of her speaking is from the clip posted here a few days ago.

Another thing is I saw the same sort of press conferences having very nearly the same message from other state public health figures. Likely done about the same time as this clip. A lot, if not all, of states made announcements of the same sort explaining how they were changing the way covid deaths were to be counted.

We can go on and on for no practical point. As another as wisely stated, it is time to say I do not care what you now believe.

 

[sk47]

Hello; I think that Burkey being in Australia does not understand we here in the states get local, regional and national news reports. The counting covid deaths bit made lots of news programs after the story broke. Was on the news cycle for a number of days. Maybe not the mainstream media, but on the news programs I watched.
Not clear why he is so bent by this little bit of covid history.

 

[Burkey]

Hello; I think that Burkey being in Australia does not understand we here in the states get local, regional and national news reports. The counting covid deaths bit made lots of news programs after the story broke. Was on the news cycle for a number of days. Maybe not the mainstream media, but on the news programs I watched.
Not clear why he is so bent by this little bit of covid history.

My apologies, I thought I was talking to someone who didn’t roam from the traditional media in order their pet theories “validated”.

Out of interest, are your media sources the same media sources that make other wild and unsubstantiated claims like that the attack on the Capitol was caused by Antifa (or insert group as required) despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

Any Qanon theories being floated there?

Any specific thoughts on litter-boxes in classrooms you’d like to share?

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