Cobb or Bama

[JJ@WMS]

Ok finally read this entire thread and while most of it is off track and there is some back and forth there is some good information to be had from this thread.

I will say however that not all tuning companies or products are the same.

I for one just had a conversation with someone yesterday who purchased our OR Downpipe and then called back to say that Cobb was unwilling or unable to turn off his downstream 02 sensor in the tune and told him to get a local Cobb dealer/tuner to do that for him which would have meant the customer spending more money on top of the 5 bills he spent on the tuner.

I'm not sure if thats true or not but if you honestly cant get Cobb to make a small change like that in your tune and then send the revised tune to you for free thats ridiculous. If its not true I'm sure someone from Cobb can enlighten me and the public.

With the SCT tuning device not only is it cheaper then any other one on the market but you can have a tune revised instantly and sent to you via email by your custom tuning dealer if they support free revisions. We here at WMS have done email tuning for years, I have thousands of email tuning customers and 4 full laptops and 8 flash drives along with a 80g hard drive for backup of all the tunes I have done over the years. That means that if someone from 5 years ago calls or emails me asking for a revision for whatever reason they get it and once again they get it for free.

Same holds true for any Mustang GT or EB customer of ours. If you purchase a tuning device from us you will not only get the device with custom tuning for $399 (MAP Price, we can usually do a bit better ;)) but you also get free unlimited tune revision for as long as you own the vehicle and if you needed that downstream 02 sensor turned off for an OR downpipe you would have that tune revision within 24 hours of making the request. You also get the latest and greatest tune revision as we are constantly tweaking and refining our tunes. So if we find something that works better then what we originally had, you get that revised tune for free. :cheers:

You guys can pretty much get a feel on whats going on with these cars. Nobody is making a ton more power then anyone else, nobody is honestly running alot faster then anyone else with the same mods or stock. We are in the infancy of this car and it will take a bit for someone to dominate and then that will go back and forth as each of us pushes our cars more and more.

We have run in the 12's with our car with a tune and OR downpipe, we have shown what the car can do with simple bolt on's and we have also developed/tested new products with other companies such as Mcleod and The Driveshaft Shop. If you want a tune thats good, safe, reliable yet powerful and gives you that great seat of the pants feel you can feel comfortable calling us for your needs. Not only will your wallet be lighter but you will also get the customer service and support you deserve as well as lifetime tune revisions with no questions asked.

Ask us about your tuning packages when bundles with other items such as Airaid CAI's and our own OR downpipe. We will be happy to earn your business.

JJ

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[dragonacc]

Ok finally read this entire thread and while most of it is off track and there is some back and forth there is some good information to be had from this thread.

I will say however that not all tuning companies or products are the same.

I for one just had a conversation with someone yesterday who purchased our OR Downpipe and then called back to say that Cobb was unwilling or unable to turn off his downstream 02 sensor in the tune and told him to get a local Cobb dealer/tuner to do that for him which would have meant the customer spending more money on top of the 5 bills he spent on the tuner.

I'm not sure if thats true or not but if you honestly cant get Cobb to make a small change like that in your tune and then send the revised tune to you for free thats ridiculous. If its not true I'm sure someone from Cobb can enlighten me and the public.

With the SCT tuning device not only is it cheaper then any other one on the market but you can have a tune revised instantly and sent to you via email by your custom tuning dealer if they support free revisions. We here at WMS have done email tuning for years, I have thousands of email tuning customers and 4 full laptops and 8 flash drives along with a 80g hard drive for backup of all the tunes I have done over the years. That means that if someone from 5 years ago calls or emails me asking for a revision for whatever reason they get it and once again they get it for free.

Same holds true for any Mustang GT or EB customer of ours. If you purchase a tuning device from us you will not only get the device with custom tuning for $399 (MAP Price, we can usually do a bit better ;)) but you also get free unlimited tune revision for as long as you own the vehicle and if you needed that downstream 02 sensor turned off for an OR downpipe you would have that tune revision within 24 hours of making the request. You also get the latest and greatest tune revision as we are constantly tweaking and refining our tunes. So if we find something that works better then what we originally had, you get that revised tune for free. :cheers:

You guys can pretty much get a feel on whats going on with these cars. Nobody is making a ton more power then anyone else, nobody is honestly running alot faster then anyone else with the same mods or stock. We are in the infancy of this car and it will take a bit for someone to dominate and then that will go back and forth as each of us pushes our cars more and more.

We have run in the 12's with our car with a tune and OR downpipe, we have shown what the car can do with simple bolt on's and we have also developed/tested new products with other companies such as Mcleod and The Driveshaft Shop. If you want a tune thats good, safe, reliable yet powerful and gives you that great seat of the pants feel you can feel comfortable calling us for your needs. Not only will your wallet be lighter but you will also get the customer service and support you deserve as well as lifetime tune revisions with no questions asked.

Ask us about your tuning packages when bundles with other items such as Airaid CAI's and our own OR downpipe. We will be happy to earn your business.

JJ

Cobb released Access Tuner Race now so the end user can make changes to the off the self maps themselves.

Two, Cobb just builds the hardware and happens to offer a variety of off the shelf tunes for free. If you buy a SCT X4 directly from SCT they won't make changes to their tunes either.

Three, I would pick you guys over Bama personally since you are more active on the forums, BUT you just made a sales pitch when the OP didn't ask about your tunes.

 

[COBB Tuning]

Ok finally read this entire thread and while most of it is off track and there is some back and forth there is some good information to be had from this thread.

I will say however that not all tuning companies or products are the same.

I for one just had a conversation with someone yesterday who purchased our OR Downpipe and then called back to say that Cobb was unwilling or unable to turn off his downstream 02 sensor in the tune and told him to get a local Cobb dealer/tuner to do that for him which would have meant the customer spending more money on top of the 5 bills he spent on the tuner.

I'm not sure if thats true or not but if you honestly cant get Cobb to make a small change like that in your tune and then send the revised tune to you for free thats ridiculous. If its not true I'm sure someone from Cobb can enlighten me and the public.

With the SCT tuning device not only is it cheaper then any other one on the market but you can have a tune revised instantly and sent to you via email by your custom tuning dealer if they support free revisions. We here at WMS have done email tuning for years, I have thousands of email tuning customers and 4 full laptops and 8 flash drives along with a 80g hard drive for backup of all the tunes I have done over the years. That means that if someone from 5 years ago calls or emails me asking for a revision for whatever reason they get it and once again they get it for free.

Same holds true for any Mustang GT or EB customer of ours. If you purchase a tuning device from us you will not only get the device with custom tuning for $399 (MAP Price, we can usually do a bit better ;)) but you also get free unlimited tune revision for as long as you own the vehicle and if you needed that downstream 02 sensor turned off for an OR downpipe you would have that tune revision within 24 hours of making the request. You also get the latest and greatest tune revision as we are constantly tweaking and refining our tunes. So if we find something that works better then what we originally had, you get that revised tune for free. :cheers:

You guys can pretty much get a feel on whats going on with these cars. Nobody is making a ton more power then anyone else, nobody is honestly running alot faster then anyone else with the same mods or stock. We are in the infancy of this car and it will take a bit for someone to dominate and then that will go back and forth as each of us pushes our cars more and more.

We have run in the 12's with our car with a tune and OR downpipe, we have shown what the car can do with simple bolt on's and we have also developed/tested new products with other companies such as Mcleod and The Driveshaft Shop. If you want a tune thats good, safe, reliable yet powerful and gives you that great seat of the pants feel you can feel comfortable calling us for your needs. Not only will your wallet be lighter but you will also get the customer service and support you deserve as well as lifetime tune revisions with no questions asked.

Ask us about your tuning packages when bundles with other items such as Airaid CAI's and our own OR downpipe. We will be happy to earn your business.

JJ

I'm not sure about the conversation you mentioned. But, I am sure the car will not run optimally with a catless downpipe and an o2 sensor disabled on a tune the downpipe is not accounted for. We wouldn't recommend a downpipe first as the intercooler is a bigger restrictor in performance. It's tough to take advantage of the increased flow a downpipe provides without charge temps heating up and hindering a potential gain. It'd be a disservice to disable an o2 sensor with a catless downpipe installed as it could potentially result in overboost or lean conditions. If the situation were presented our customer service would likely recommend a custom tune. They'd also express why a downpipe as the first modification (after a tune) may not be best. Our stage maps and packages create an optimal upgrade path that if followed prevent the need for custom tuning. But, if you want to go big turbo or make a competition car, custom tuning is available; by yourself through Accesstuner Race or though a Protuner with Accesstuner Pro.

Kyle@COBB

 

[Gst95dsm]

It's really getting hard decipher what's what right now..... so COBB, let's say you have a catless down pipe, You're going to get a check engine light, how is that handled? This is a major issue for me as I'm about to pull the trigger on an AP, I/C and down pipe.

 

[foghat]

It's really getting hard decipher what's what right now..... so COBB, let's say you have a catless down pipe, You're going to get a check engine light, how is that handled? This is a major issue for me as I'm about to pull the trigger on an AP, I/C and down pipe.

If you get a catless downpipe, you should get a tune that incorporates the dp. Right now, with an AP, that looks like you'd need a custom tune.

I know on other platforms cobb offers various ots maps - including ones that include items such as downpipes, intakes, exhaust, different octane, and IC.

I would assume something similar is coming for the ecoboost.

 

[Gst95dsm]

If you get a catless downpipe, you should get a tune that incorporates the dp. Right now, with an AP, that looks like you'd need a custom tune.

I know on other platforms cobb offers various ots maps - including ones that include items such as downpipes, intakes, exhaust, different octane, and IC.

I would assume something similar is coming for the ecoboost.

That makes sense, These just seem like stage 0+ mods..... so getting a custom tune for such simple mods seems a little excessive. I happen to like Cobb, and I feel that they explain what and why the most effectively but am a bit hesitant on how limited it "seems", when you can go SCT and have them be able to work with your mod path one on one without need for a custom tune for minor mods. What am I missing? I guess these mods will be covered by OTS tunes from COBB in the near future? These will be everyone's first mods... Intake / Exhaust / I/C.....so I hope it's soon.

 

[JJ@WMS]

I'm not sure about the conversation you mentioned. But, I am sure the car will not run optimally with a catless downpipe and an o2 sensor disabled on a tune the downpipe is not accounted for. We wouldn't recommend a downpipe first as the intercooler is a bigger restrictor in performance. It's tough to take advantage of the increased flow a downpipe provides without charge temps heating up and hindering a potential gain. It'd be a disservice to disable an o2 sensor with a catless downpipe installed as it could potentially result in overboost or lean conditions. If the situation were presented our customer service would likely recommend a custom tune. They'd also express why a downpipe as the first modification (after a tune) may not be best. Our stage maps and packages create an optimal upgrade path that if followed prevent the need for custom tuning. But, if you want to go big turbo or make a competition car, custom tuning is available; by yourself through Accesstuner Race or though a Protuner with Accesstuner Pro.

Kyle@COBB

I do not agree. You dont need a radically different tune for an OR downpipe, period. We were the first to offer a downpipe, test it, tune with it and run in on our own car and for the most part with base tunes you really only need to shut off the downstream 02 sensor.

It's really getting hard decipher what's what right now..... so COBB, let's say you have a catless down pipe, You're going to get a check engine light, how is that handled? This is a major issue for me as I'm about to pull the trigger on an AP, I/C and down pipe.

I look forward to the explanation given.

That makes sense, These just seem like stage 0+ mods..... so getting a custom tune for such simple mods seems a little excessive. I happen to like Cobb, and I feel that they explain what and why the most effectively but am a bit hesitant on how limited it "seems", when you can go SCT and have them be able to work with your mod path one on one without need for a custom tune for minor mods. What am I missing? I guess these mods will be covered by OTS tunes from COBB in the near future? These will be everyone's first mods... Intake / Exhaust / I/C.....so I hope it's soon.

Exactly.

Pay for tuning once and be done with it.

Unless the car winds up being radically modified there is no reason why simple bolt on mods cant be accounted for in the tune.

Sorry but if your first purchase is a tune and you pay for that there should be no reason to pay for a tune if you get a CAI, then pay again if you get an OR Downpipe (or any downpipe for that matter), then pay again if you get an FMIC.... These are simple mods and most of them dont require wholesale tune changes.

JJ

 

[foghat]

That makes sense, These just seem like stage 0+ mods..... so getting a custom tune for such simple mods seems a little excessive. I happen to like Cobb, and I feel that they explain what and why the most effectively but am a bit hesitant on how limited it "seems", when you can go SCT and have them be able to work with your mod path one on one without need for a custom tune for minor mods. What am I missing? I guess these mods will be covered by OTS tunes from COBB in the near future? These will be everyone's first mods... Intake / Exhaust / I/C.....so I hope it's soon.

Thing is you aren't going direct to SCT for map changes. You are going to one of their resellers that offers that service. Not sure if there are any cobb ecoboost resellers out there currently.

And have you confirmed that the SCT reseller you have in mind can actually provide a dp map at this point?

The accesport is very powerful in that cobb give you the ability to tune on your own with their ATR software. Of course, you need to know what your are doing and probably isn't for most people.

I'd get in touch with cobb (or maybe they will respond here) to see what (if anything) they have in store for additional ots maps.

For example, here is what they have available for 135i (my old car).

http://www.cobbtuning.com/BMW-N54-A...3-bmw-001-up.htm#/v/accessport/maps/bmw/IJE0S

Even with all this, I still went with a custom etune after finishing my mods.

 

[dragonacc]

Unless the car winds up being radically modified there is no reason why simple bolt on mods cant be accounted for in the tune.

Sorry but if your first purchase is a tune and you pay for that there should be no reason to pay for a tune if you get a CAI, then pay again if you get an OR Downpipe (or any downpipe for that matter), then pay again if you get an FMIC.... These are simple mods and most of them dont require wholesale tune changes.

JJ

Since you ignored me the first time. You can buy the Accessport from FFTEC, MAP, and any number of other vendors. The custom tuning will come from them. You aren't making an apples to apples comparison.

Does SCT give you custom tunes if you buy the SCT X4 directly from them??? No, they don't. But if you buy it from a tuner you get your tunes from them. Cobb is just like SCT. Just because they actually make more parts than the tuning device itself doesn't mean they are going to support other companies hard parts directly.

If you guys started selling the Accessport for instance you could provide tunes and give people a choice of hardware for those that want it.

 

[Gst95dsm]

That makes things clearer for me, I guess with the release of the software from COBB today, now other A/P tuners can release their own OTS tunes incorporating their parts, so really it comes down to which interface is better, or which one your prefer. I had just assumed COBB themselves would be at the forefront with OTS tunes incorporating common mods, but I guess you then get into trouble with not knowing exactly how everyone's parts are made or how they'll impact the car. Makes sense for COBB to only supply a "stock" tune, since all the car's are starting off relatively equal. Then for them to only supply maps that they can guarantee work well with their own COBB branded parts.

Thing is you aren't going direct to SCT for map changes. You are going to one of their resellers that offers that service. Not sure if there are any cobb ecoboost resellers out there currently.

And have you confirmed that the SCT reseller you have in mind can actually provide a dp map at this point?

The accesport is very powerful in that cobb give you the ability to tune on your own with their ATR software. Of course, you need to know what your are doing and probably isn't for most people.

I'd get in touch with cobb (or maybe they will respond here) to see what (if anything) they have in store for additional ots maps.

For example, here is what they have available for 135i (my old car).

http://www.cobbtuning.com/BMW-N54-A...3-bmw-001-up.htm#/v/accessport/maps/bmw/IJE0S

Even with all this, I still went with a custom etune after finishing my mods.

 

[foghat]

That makes things clearer for me, I guess with the release of the software from COBB today, now other A/P tuners can release their own OTS tunes incorporating their parts, so really it comes down to which interface is better, or which one your prefer. I had just assumed COBB themselves would be at the forefront with OTS tunes incorporating common mods, but I guess you then get into trouble with not knowing exactly how everyone's parts are made or how they'll impact the car. Makes sense for COBB to only supply a "stock" tune, since all the car's are starting off relatively equal. Then for them to only supply maps that they can guarantee work well with their own COBB branded parts.

To be clear, on my 135i I did not have any cobb parts. And the ots maps worked fine with brand parts I did have (IC, DP, Intake, CBE).

The ots maps have enough forgiveness in them to account for minor performance differences for a given part.

I suspect additional cobb ots maps are coming. Or maybe they won't be putting any out until they actually build the part so they can make the tune (vs. using a competitor part to build the tune). Only they can answer that.

 

[foghat]

I do not agree. You dont need a radically different tune for an OR downpipe, period. We were the first to offer a downpipe, test it, tune with it and run in on our own car and for the most part with base tunes you really only need to shut off the downstream 02 sensor.

Now, if you hadn't developed a dp, tested it and built a tune for it, thus did not have this knowledge, would you have simply disabled the o2 sensor because a customer requested it be done? I hope not. Not to put words in Cobb's mouth, but all Cobb was saying, I think, is we aren't going to do that because at this point we don't know what the outcome will be of adding a dp without a supporting tune.

I look forward to the explanation given.

Again, not to put words in Cobb's mouth, once they actually build a tune that incorporates a dp and are happy with the way things are running, they disable the sensor (or something). Whatever they do, it takes care of the check engine light.

 

[smdandb2]

Not to put words in Cobb's mouth, but once they actually build a tune that incorporates a dp and are happy with the way things are running, they disable the sensor (or something). Whatever they do, it takes care of the check engine light.

COBB will never release an OTS tune for a catless downpipe. You can forget about it. They have too much to lose now. If/when they do a downpipe, it will be of the catted variety and I can almost bet the MIL will operate as intended with their OTS tune. I would genuinely be surprised if they are forcing ready codes or just disabling them all together.

They are big enough to be on the EPAs radar, and that is not an entity you want to fight. They just finished having their hard-on with the diesel guys and their DPF deletes. Turbocharged cars will be the target of their rage soon enough.

 

[foghat]

COBB will never release an OTS tune for a catless downpipe. You can forget about it. They have too much to lose now. If/when they do a downpipe, it will be of the catted variety and I can almost bet the MIL will operate as intended with their OTS tune. I would genuinely be surprised if they are forcing ready codes or just disabling them all together.

They are big enough to be on the EPAs radar, and that is not an entity you want to fight. They just finished having their hard-on with the diesel guys and their DPF deletes. Turbocharged cars will be the target of their rage soon enough.

??? Go to their site and look at the maps for the sti, evo or bmw. Or check out the link I posted a few posts back. They have plenty of DP maps that work with catless dp's

I was using cobb's ots map (Stage2+FMIC Map, Aggressive) on my 135i with catless dp's. No codes, no problem.

 

[bislag]

For those unaware, on other platforms users can disable engine codes as they see fit using the ATR software. On my MS3 and MS6 I disabled the codes associated with a catless downpipe upgrade. There is no reason to expect that it will be any different here. If the capability to do so isn't already available in ATR for this platform, it likely will be soon.

For those that have emissions:
Unless Cobb has created a workaround, disabling the code will prevent a check engine light but cause a "Not Ready" result on the scan. Some states have a set number of "Not Ready"s that they will allow before failing you.

Just going to put this out there:
Some vendors need to consider a renewed focus on behaving more professionally, and allow their products to stand on their own merit. The instant a vendor needs to bash or shine a negative light on another before advertising their product, I am forced to assume that their product must be inferior in some way. Unfortunately, there's way too much of that going around.

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