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Cheaper to "fuel up" ICE than EV

Cobra Jet

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kz

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Per recent CarBuzz article, findings are that it's cheaper to "fuel up" an ICE vehicle vs. EV.

Now of course "rates" for fuel or electricity can change, but it's a decent article.

EV Charging Prices Rise Above ICE Fueling Costs For First Time In 18 Months https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-charging-prices-rise-above-ice-fueling-costs-for-first-time-in-18-months
We have had little "discussion" about it elsewhere. EV charging in this "study" includes things like time burden associated with charging (including "connecting and disconnecting") and all kinds of nonsense. It is not a direct comparison of costs of "fueling", not even remotely close.

(I have the actual study downloaded in the pdf)
 

TW Merema

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I’d be curious to see where exactly they compared energy prices for “charging at home”. Seattle? New York? Here in good old Alabama I pay $.13/kWh. Girlfriends VW ID.4 takes 77 kW to charge from dead empty, which it never is, to 100%, which we never do (supposedly bad for the battery?). In the event she ran it from 100% down to 0%, it would be about 220 miles for the type of driving she does which is a bit of in town plus a 35 mile round trip “highway” drive to work each day. If she stays in town she could probably stretch that to 240 miles. That’s about $10 worth of electrons to go 220 miles. Our cheapest gas around here is $3.15/gal, so a little over 3 gallons of gas bought for that same $10 in electricity gives a roughly 70mpg equivalent. Put another way she gets about 3 mi/kW ($.13) or $.043/mi. In a crossover the size of a Honda Passport give or take. The math was even more in her favor when she bought it in summer 2021.
 

shogun32

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don't worry, a certain previous-president assured us all that is was necessary and good for electricity prices to 10x and you'd be paying mortgage money for electricity/month. With more "green" energy generation we'll get there yet. Have faith, economic illiteracy and energy policy stupidity hasn't been fully realized, but we'll get there.

Western civ history tells us that esp. Americans will stubbornly try every wrong solution before coming to their senses and doing the only correct thing.
 

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Inthehighdesert

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Here it would vary greatly by the time of year and what tier the electrical cost is being figured.
 

sk47

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Hello; What seems a key feature is that the article states it is for the first time in 18 months. Should be understood the cost to charge will depend on fuel vs. electricity costs.
Here is a question to be answered is If more and more high demand EV's are using the electricity and the grids cannot keep up, will it be a supply -demand situation? If so then electric rates will go up??
 

KeyLime

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I’d be curious to see where exactly they compared energy prices for “charging at home”. Seattle? New York? Here in good old Alabama I pay $.13/kWh.
I’m paying $.31 KW in CA. A Model S has a 100 kw battery good for close to 400 miles. That’s a steep electric rate and I’d still be hard pressed to come out ahead burning gas unless I was in an econo box getting 40 mpg. And if I’m getting 40 mpg I doubt I’d be enjoying the room and performance of a Model S.
 
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Cobra Jet

Cobra Jet

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So let me ask this to both @TW Merema and @KeyLime, since you both have listed some figures in your responses.

When you bought your EV, excluding the actual cost of the EV itself, what other extras or costs are associated with it to keep it going?

First let me preface this by saying this is NOT an argument about ICE vs. EV - nor is it any dig against either side. It's purely a discussion that will hopefully stay civil and grounded, without any personal attacks towards anyone who responds in this thread.

Ok so back to my question above - what other costs are associated with the EV?

- Are there any fees to be paid to the Manufacturer for "charging" or using their equipment to charge? If so, is it monthly, annually, upon charging, etc?

- Did you have to pay $X for a charging stand, lines or device?

- Did you have to modify ANYTHING at all at your home in order to "plug in"? If yes, what were those approximate costs?

- Are you paying any additional fees to "plug in" in order to fuel up your EV?

- Is the charging "cost" for the EV in addition to or on top of your current electricity/utility billing - or are your quoted figures an approximation of what is "blended" into your existing utility costs?

Lastly, going back to the cost of just the EV itself, did you receive any discounts or incentives to buy it that would affect your taxes - and if so, approximate kickback $? Did what was portrayed to you at signing as far as any "tax benefit" that you were to receive back really come through as that benefit to you or was there something you were gaslighted on that you did not know at the time of signing?

Again, in no way am I asking the above to incite any forum protests about ICE vs EV. What I am seeking is the education from both of you who do actually own an EV and who can be totally transparent about the above questions and not embellish anything.
 

TW Merema

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@Cobra Jet I don’t take this stuff personally, and am happy to answer your questions. As far as additional costs when we bought there weren’t any aside from buying a charging station for home (basically it’s a large disconnect, the car does all the starting/stopping of charging and the AC/DC conversion). One of the virtues of an EV is there really aren’t many ongoing costs besides electricity. No oil changes, no tune ups, no transmission so no service there. Ours has a rear diff I think but that’s about the only ”normal” car item that needs servicing besides brakes, tires, and wheel bearings I’d guess. Brakes should last a long time since we use the regenerative braking quite a lot.

- Are there any fees to be paid to the Manufacturer for "charging" or using their equipment to charge? If so, is it monthly, annually, upon charging, etc? VW provided 3 years of free unlimited charging at Electrify America (owned by VW). Tesla charges you each time you charge, as do most other services including Elictrify Anerica if you don’t have free charging there.

- Did you have to pay $X for a charging stand, lines or device? Charging equipment at home was about $400, we purchased a Grizzl-e charger because it is manufactured in Canada and has no built in WiFi. WiFi is unnecessary in a charge station because the car has all those controls built in to the app, as mentioned above the car starts and stops charging.

- Did you have to modify ANYTHING at all at your home in order to "plug in"? If yes, what were those approximate costs? I already had installed a 50 amp plug for my welder, so it really was plug and play for us. If you don’t, that would be an additional cost. Mine was easy as the breaker box is in the garage and I used 4’ of 6 gauge wire and a box with NEMA 6-50 plug.

- Are you paying any additional fees to "plug in" in order to fuel up your EV? The only additional cost to charge is if we stop at a different brand of charge station on the road. In 18 months we have never needed to do that.

- Is the charging "cost" for the EV in addition to or on top of your current electricity/utility billing - or are your quoted figures an approximation of what is "blended" into your existing utility costs? The cost is on top of whatever the normal electric bill is for the house, but it’s all together on the same bill. We just get a bill for x number of kW/hrs, single meter.

As far as tax credits go we did indeed get the full $7500 “back”, but it’s not like you get a check from Uncle Sam. So here’s how it goes…if you purchase an EV that’s eligible for a tax credit either paying cash or financing, then you get the $7500 credit towards your tax bill but you have to itemize to get it, and you don’t get it until tax time. If you are using the standard deduction, this can be tricky. The way around that is to lease the vehicle, when you lease they will take the $7500 right off the cost of the lease because technically the leasing company is “buying“ the car, so they pass it along at the jump. This is the route we went, and probably since it has been a great vehicle so far will buy it out at the end of the lease. If we hate it or circumstances change, we turn it in at the end of the lease and walk away.

Hopefully this answers your questions. I am very honest about our experience so far with the EV, frankly I am NOT out to save the planet (I drive a Mustang) this was a financial decision that so far has paid off. Our VW was about $45k on the sticker, which was the price paid in July 2021. We were cross shopping many different small/mid sized crossover type vehicles, including VW Tiguan, Honda CRV, Toyota Rav 4, Land Rover Evoque, Acura RDX, and many others. This one has more room inside than all of them plus just as much if not more tech. I believe it’s faster than them for the most part, certainly quieter with a better ride, plus it’s RWD which I like. Price wise it’s right in the middle, cheaper than the more premium brands but more than the Honda and Toyota.
 

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TW Merema

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I’d also want to add that our geography had a lot to do with our decision to try it. We live 30 miles from the Gulf of Mexico and it rarely gets below freezing here. If we still lived in Chicago we would not have bought an EV. The range suffers in the cold due to battery efficiency along with the fact that most EVs use a resistive type heater that uses a lot of power, lessening the range quite a bit.
 

shogun32

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Do people buy EVs to save money?
depends on your use case but yes, it can work out that way. But the social preening is worth the buy-in all by itself. :)
 

TW Merema

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Do people buy EVs to save money?
We did, so far over about 30k miles we’ve saved $2500+ on just fuel alone. That isn’t EXACTLY the figure, but I used $3.25/gal average for gasoline. Also didn’t figure in “free” charging we’ve done on trips or around town, but it’s probably pretty close.

Edit: I’d also mention with the vehicles we were cross shopping our acquisition cost was not any different than it would have been otherwise. If we’d been looking at a Hyundai or Kia sedan the acquisition cost would have been much lower.
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