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Chola

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That he’s an electrical engineer.

I guess you’d better tell my fluke meter it’s wrong as well. I can see voltage with my meter touching the neg side cable to chassis ground and leaving the positive side attached to the battery while metering both sides. So yeah carry on…
Can you draw a diagram (or a picture) and show: You might need a new meter!
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ZXMustang

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Can you draw a diagram (or a picture) and show: You might need a new meter!
You can’t comprehend clearly written text? You are like my little one, you need a picture book.
 

Ruiner46

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You know that’s not such an unbelievable concept these days right?
Defying physics or taking a picture? It would be nice if you would stay on this (derailed) topic instead of posting petty replies because I would really like to see you show this incredible discovery before the thread gets locked. Apologies to the OP, but I really hate confidently posted misinformation.
 

ZXMustang

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Defying physics or taking a picture? It would be nice if you would stay on this (derailed) topic instead of posting petty replies because I would really like to see you show this incredible discovery before the thread gets locked. Apologies to the OP, but I really hate confidently posted misinformation.
I'm not going to take my car's battery components out and arrange a "photo op" for some complete nobody who I don't care about just to prove a point. I have far greater things to do. You do what you want with your car your way, and I will continue to do with mine what I want - with no regard to your opinions or anyone's opinion on this forum.

This is my last reply here. I've clearly spelled out what I've done and what I've seen. Again you do it your way and I will do it my way. And to put your mind's at ease, I don't work on anyone else's car but my own. So maybe with all the concern here, you all can sleep easy...
 

Ruiner46

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I'm not going to take my car's battery components out and arrange a "photo op" for some complete nobody who I don't care about just to prove a point. I have far greater things to do. You do what you want with your car your way, and I will continue to do with mine what I want - with no regard to your opinions or anyone's opinion on this forum.

This is my last reply here. I've clearly spelled out what I've done and what I've seen. Again you do it your way and I will do it my way. And to put your mind's at ease, I don't work on anyone else's car but my own. So maybe with all the concern here, you all can sleep easy...
Lol, ok so you didn't actually measure it with a fluke, you're just making stuff up. I'll post a picture later tonight when I get home.
 

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Tucker80

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Lol, ok so you didn't actually measure it with a fluke, you're just making stuff up. I'll post a picture later tonight when I get home.
I honestly wouldn't waste my time. Its as basic as it gets and unfortunately some people will just never get it now matter how simple of a concept it is - No negative connection, no electrical flow.
 

JetGray_Mach1

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this may help.....
1692746943163.png


no direct ground connection to source(battery) no flow of electrons no electricity. I always have and always will disconnect Negative first.
 

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Ok kiddies, pay close attention. If you disconnect ANY terminal from the battery the circuit ceases to be and all arguments of what components are at what potential are moot. You can disconnect any terminal you like first and the moment you do, nothing in the car has any electrical potential relative the battery. Doesn't matter a single bit, period. Basic electrical fundamentals taught in high school physics. If you folks were educated in the public school system I want a refund.
 

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🍿:giggle: Only 6 pages? Keep it coming!
 

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sk47

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Hello; For some time, I figured ZXMustang was a right fighter (someone who will go to most any lengths rather than admit being wrong).
Since the discussion has digressed, I have had time to wonder about a possible sort of explanation. Before I do let me say I am a remove the neg cable from the battery first and when finished with the job attach the neg cable last. What I think is the long-time way to do so.

When jumping a car, I also do the pos-to-pos connection first. Then the neg to the dead battery terminal and last the neg to some metal of the good car and not to the good battery terminal. I have always figured that last connection was to keep any sparks away from the batteries where some explosive gases might linger.

OK, on to a possible explaination. Say I remove neg cable from my cars good battery. As others have stated no circuit can exist at that point. What if I used my multimeter to touch the neg battery post and some metal part of the car. I wonder if the multimeter would create a "ground" of sorts and give a reading on its dial. Next question would be which function the multimeter be set at?? Would it need to be at DC voltage or at ohms?
Additionally, my guess is if you touched the multimeter leads to the pos post of the battery and metal of the car no reading at all.

Last guess is the existence of capacitors or some other such in the wiring. A capacitor can hold a bit of charge for some time. I always figured this was why we need to disconnect the neg terminal for the purpose of clearing faults or codes for say 30 minutes or more.
 

Ruiner46

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Hello; For some time, I figured ZXMustang was a right fighter (someone who will go to most any lengths rather than admit being wrong).
Since the discussion has digressed, I have had time to wonder about a possible sort of explanation. Before I do let me say I am a remove the neg cable from the battery first and when finished with the job attach the neg cable last. What I think is the long-time way to do so.

When jumping a car, I also do the pos-to-pos connection first. Then the neg to the dead battery terminal and last the neg to some metal of the good car and not to the good battery terminal. I have always figured that last connection was to keep any sparks away from the batteries where some explosive gases might linger.

OK, on to a possible explaination. Say I remove neg cable from my cars good battery. As others have stated no circuit can exist at that point. What if I used my multimeter to touch the neg battery post and some metal part of the car. I wonder if the multimeter would create a "ground" of sorts and give a reading on its dial. Next question would be which function the multimeter be set at?? Would it need to be at DC voltage or at ohms?
Additionally, my guess is if you touched the multimeter leads to the pos post of the battery and metal of the car no reading at all.

Last guess is the existence of capacitors or some other such in the wiring. A capacitor can hold a bit of charge for some time. I always figured this was why we need to disconnect the neg terminal for the purpose of clearing faults or codes for say 30 minutes or more.
These are some good questions. A good multimeter should never "create a ground" unless you are measuring current. When you measure current, the multimeter is in series with the connection and provides a low resistance path for the current to be measured. Basically, a multimeter acts as a wire to keep the circuit connected so you can measure the current through it.

When you measure volts, the multimeter acts as a very high resistance so very little current flows through it. If it provided a low resistance like a short circuit, it would drag the voltage down and would not be able to measure properly.

When you measure resistance, the multimeter is actually providing a small voltage like 1V across the connection and measures the current to determine the resistance of the circuit. This is why when you measure resistance, you should always do it to an unpowered circuit or you will be providing a voltage that doesn't belong in the circuit.

It is true that there is capacitance in electrical circuits which will hold the voltage up to some degree. However, in typical circuits, the capacitance is low enough to bleed off within a minute or less. You can speed this process up by disconnecting one cable and shorting it to the other. At that point, you are shorting out any capacitor and bleeding it very rapidly. Only do this if you KNOW the circuit is not powered or you can create a short. Since a car battery can provide 600 amps or more, shorting the battery to ground will be pretty dramatic... lots of sparks and the cables may weld themselves to the terminals or metal they're making contact with making it much harder to disconnect immediately.

And while I'm here, here are pics of the voltage across my battery with the neg cable disconnected:

PXL_20230822_222321671.jpg


And the voltage from the positive cable to the negative cable with the cable grounded to a bolt on the chassis:
PXL_20230822_222327525.jpg


I don't have a fancy fluke, but my trusty craftsman shows 0.007 volts without the negative battery terminal connected. No sparks, no danger, etc. It does look like my negative terminal needs a good cleaning.
 

JetGray_Mach1

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Hello; For some time, I figured ZXMustang was a right fighter (someone who will go to most any lengths rather than admit being wrong).
Since the discussion has digressed, I have had time to wonder about a possible sort of explanation. Before I do let me say I am a remove the neg cable from the battery first and when finished with the job attach the neg cable last. What I think is the long-time way to do so.

When jumping a car, I also do the pos-to-pos connection first. Then the neg to the dead battery terminal and last the neg to some metal of the good car and not to the good battery terminal. I have always figured that last connection was to keep any sparks away from the batteries where some explosive gases might linger.

OK, on to a possible explaination. Say I remove neg cable from my cars good battery. As others have stated no circuit can exist at that point. What if I used my multimeter to touch the neg battery post and some metal part of the car. I wonder if the multimeter would create a "ground" of sorts and give a reading on its dial. Next question would be which function the multimeter be set at?? Would it need to be at DC voltage or at ohms?
Additionally, my guess is if you touched the multimeter leads to the pos post of the battery and metal of the car no reading at all.

Last guess is the existence of capacitors or some other such in the wiring. A capacitor can hold a bit of charge for some time. I always figured this was why we need to disconnect the neg terminal for the purpose of clearing faults or codes for say 30 minutes or more.
True that works BUT I thought you are supposed to connect the negative to the metal of the dead car....Not going to argue because I don't think it matters the main purpose is to avoid spark on the last connection near a battery + it usually makes a better connection this way.
 

JetGray_Mach1

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These are some good questions. A good multimeter should never "create a ground" unless you are measuring current. When you measure current, the multimeter is in series with the connection and provides a low resistance path for the current to be measured. Basically, a multimeter acts as a wire to keep the circuit connected so you can measure the current through it.

When you measure volts, the multimeter acts as a very high resistance so very little current flows through it. If it provided a low resistance like a short circuit, it would drag the voltage down and would not be able to measure properly.

When you measure resistance, the multimeter is actually providing a small voltage like 1V across the connection and measures the current to determine the resistance of the circuit. This is why when you measure resistance, you should always do it to an unpowered circuit or you will be providing a voltage that doesn't belong in the circuit.

It is true that there is capacitance in electrical circuits which will hold the voltage up to some degree. However, in typical circuits, the capacitance is low enough to bleed off within a minute or less. You can speed this process up by disconnecting one cable and shorting it to the other. At that point, you are shorting out any capacitor and bleeding it very rapidly. Only do this if you KNOW the circuit is not powered or you can create a short. Since a car battery can provide 600 amps or more, shorting the battery to ground will be pretty dramatic... lots of sparks and the cables may weld themselves to the terminals or metal they're making contact with making it much harder to disconnect immediately.

And while I'm here, here are pics of the voltage across my battery with the neg cable disconnected:

PXL_20230822_222321671.jpg


And the voltage from the positive cable to the negative cable with the cable grounded to a bolt on the chassis:
PXL_20230822_222327525.jpg


I don't have a fancy fluke, but my trusty craftsman shows 0.007 volts without the negative battery terminal connected. No sparks, no danger, etc. It does look like my negative terminal needs a good cleaning.
DAMN we are getting all detailed folks. @ZXMustang look what you started LOL
 

JetGray_Mach1

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