Cavalli Turbo......

[dragonacc]

Chains can break or stretch for that matter too. They'd probably use a Gilmer driven type belt (like on a Roots/GMC type blower that has teeth) that won't slip. They use them on 4000+ hp Top Fuel motors without issue, so I'd think that a 400 rwhp 4 cylinder wouldn't bother them too much.

Granted they're changed often on a Top Fueler, but you see my point. :cheers:

I looked it up and see what you mean. I think supplimental port injection would probably be easier. Guess we'll see what the market comes up with.

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[Impulsed7]

Yes, they do use them on Top Fuel cars, and for oil pumps on dry sump race cars, but they are replaced far to regularly (or supposed to be) for use on a street car.

 

[David@FFtec]

Keep in mind that the stock crank and crank pulley does not have a keyway. It relies on friction washers to drive the timing chain and accessory pulley. The MS3 uses the same system and it has reliability issues at high mileage and/or high HP. A crank driven HPFP would be very difficult to implement.

Also, the aftermarket 2nd HPFP on the BMW N54 has not proven to be an effective solution. The current dyno record holder is using supplemental port injection.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Keep in mind that the stock crank and crank pulley does not have a keyway. It relies on friction washers to drive the timing chain and accessory pulley. The MS3 uses the same system and it has reliability issues at high mileage and/or high HP. A crank driven HPFP would be very difficult to implement.

Also, the aftermarket 2nd HPFP on the BMW N54 has not proven to be an effective solution. The current dyno record holder is using supplemental port injection.

F. There's not going to be an inexpensive fix for this, is there?

Is a crank driven HPFP/injection pump a possibility? Pinning a crank isn't too difficult if I remember correctly...a lot of LS guys do it when they install centrifugals on their engines.

They use them on 4000+ hp Top Fuel motors

Down quite a bit of hp, eh?

 

[dragonacc]

F. There's not going to be an inexpensive fix for this, is there?



Down quite a bit of hp, eh?

Its inexpensive if the engine isn't in the car already. lol

 

[cosmo]

Some company either needs to figure out a replacement hpfp, or, maybe some sort of hybrid solution? Since this is a 4 lobe hpfp cam, couldnt you drive 2 oem pumps at 90 degrees offset? That way you could have each pump fueling 2 cylinders, instead of one pump fueling 4. The 90 degree offset would allow the pumps to support the firing order.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Some company either needs to figure out a replacement hpfp, or, maybe some sort of hybrid solution? Since this is a 4 lobe hpfp cam, couldnt you drive 2 oem pumps at 90 degrees offset? That way you could have each pump fueling 2 cylinders, instead of one pump fueling 4. The 90 degree offset would allow the pumps to support the firing order.

Are there any pics of the stock config? I'd like to see the arrangement of everything...

 

[cosmo]

Are there any pics of the stock config? I'd like to see the arrangement of everything...

You can kinda see it here. The hpfp is on the exhaust cam. I know there's a better pic from a Detroit auto show/New York auto show setting.

 

[Juben]

I think we're end up with the same solution as the FoST and MZR guys. Plenty of them are using port/throttle body fueling setups reliably and are making good power with them. Stratified just released their Xtra Fuel System for the FoST cars and the results are pretty impressive. Alex is on the board here now and could provide some great insight to it.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I think we're end up with the same solution as the FoST and MZR guys. Plenty of them are using port/throttle body fueling setups reliably and are making good power with them. Stratified just released their Xtra Fuel System for the FoST cars and the results are pretty impressive. Alex is on the board here now and could provide some great insight to it.

The system use MegaSquirt to activate the aux injectors? Does MS come w/ the kit? How about tune?

For $900, I would hope it would be all-inclusive.

 

[Juben]

The system use MegaSquirt to activate the aux injectors? Does MS come w/ the kit? How about tune?

For $900, I would hope it would be all-inclusive.

Yeah, MS comes with it and the kit is basically plug and play. Alex tried to make it as painless to install, tune, and run as possible.

Hopefully, he can chime in and provide a bit of insight about it. Something like this would be great for the 2.3 platform as well.

 

[wildsailor]

*Sigh

Thanks for trying to educate all of us simpletons, but I would highly recommend studying direct injected gas turbo engines some more. Fuel delivery specifically, as well as turbine compressors, as these seem to be the areas you need a bit better understanding of...

You caught me mingling older low pressure fuel systems with the newer high pressure stuff. Embarrassing... I must admit I have been out of the engine business for 10 years so it was a good catch.

However, if more fuel is needed and the concern is starvation at higher flow rates, why not just a higher rate Ford pump? Conceivably a pump that satisfies the thirsty 2.7L or 3.5L GTDI should work, eh?

I am also not sure about package but the injectors for the 3.5L may carry a higher flow rate spec simply due to duty cycle.

 

[Juben]

You caught me mingling older low pressure fuel systems with the newer high pressure stuff. Embarrassing... I must admit I have been out of the engine business for 10 years so it was a good catch.

However, if more fuel is needed and the concern is starvation at higher flow rates, why not just a higher rate Ford pump? Conceivably a pump that satisfies the thirsty 2.7L or 3.5L GTDI should work, eh?

I am also not sure about package but the injectors for the 3.5L may carry a higher flow rate spec simply due to duty cycle.

The problem so far hasn't been the injectors with these engines as much as the volume of the HPFP being limited at higher HP numbers. They can't produce adequate flow and start dropping pressure in the fuel rail which leads to problems.

 

[dragonacc]

You caught me mingling older low pressure fuel systems with the newer high pressure stuff. Embarrassing... I must admit I have been out of the engine business for 10 years so it was a good catch.

However, if more fuel is needed and the concern is starvation at higher flow rates, why not just a higher rate Ford pump? Conceivably a pump that satisfies the thirsty 2.7L or 3.5L GTDI should work, eh?

I am also not sure about package but the injectors for the 3.5L may carry a higher flow rate spec simply due to duty cycle.

The ecoboost already uses the same pump as the F150 3.5L.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

The ecoboost already uses the same pump as the F150 3.5L.

It does? Those heavy bastards sure are quick compared to where most have hit a roadblock w/ the 2.3...

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