Cavalli Turbo......

[dabsevo]

Would love it if the HP shot up to around high 300s-400 to match the torque and it didn't drop off so early like on stock

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[l2frankie]

Would like to see what a stock mustang would do with just a bigger turbo, ic, and tune

 

[STREETMASTERS]

350 ...i like what I'm hearing

 

[RubyRacer]

Just ran into Justin from AM at the grocery store about an hour ago and he said they just got this turbo installed on their EB! Sounds like it's putting down 350hp at the wheels easy now

On stock tune? As in, just adding the turbo brought them to about 350rwhp? If it's turbo swap AND a detailed dyno tune, I'm not very impressed.

 

[l2frankie]

Bump what's up with the turbo

 

[wildsailor]

* Sigh...

An attempt to discuss technical items here...

Power/Torque - in order to get more you need to boost more or figure out how to free up the flow going in at the same pressure. In other words, increase the pressure or lower the resistance. A larger turbo (rated in CFM) is not going to help but it will allow it to happen. Why? 18 psi is 18psi irregardless of what pump is pushing it. To get more power/torque you need to increase the air and fuel going into the cylinders; ie, more pressure.

Torque Curve - the curve on the stock 2.3L EB does indeed start falling off early at around 5400-5500 RPM. This can be for a couple of reasons; the calibration is trailing off the boost at that RPM level or the turbo is running out of air. A graph of the boost vs. RPM will be able to show that. If the turbo is unable to keep up at that RPM then a larger turbo will shift the curve to a higher RPM. Higher RPM means higher airflow and therefore higher fuel rates. More on that in a minute.

Fuel Needs - high cylinder pressures that are generated with forced induction are prone to detonation issues. Think diesel engines where the pressure ignites the fuel and not a spark plug. At high boost pressures the flame front can generate so much pressure inside the chamber (higher torque means higher cylinder pressures; the two are synonymous) that it ignites the mixture outside of the flame front. It cannot be overstated that this is a huge issue. So huge that it may be the reason the turbo pressure is limited at higher RPM. Higher airflow at high RPM will mean more fuel needs as some fuel is used to prevent detonation with a rich mixture. If you go lean at high RPM under high cylinder pressures you will destroy something expensive. If those of you are elevating boost pressures and running lean STOP IMMEDIATELY. To provide more fuel to enable the higher pressures at high RPM we need to know if the pump is unable to keep up or the duty cycle of the injectors are too high. Pumps are easy, there are higher capacity pumps or booster pumps available. The injectors may need to be changed to a larger capacity. To tell which is needed (and it may be both) monitoring the fuel pressure and A/F ratio is what needs to be done. If the engine is going lean (or not as 'rich' to keep things cool) and there is still sufficient pump pressure then the issue is at the injector not the pump. Running higher pump pressure will not help.

Turbine Type - any new turbo impeller has to be sized to prevent lag. The twin scroll is designed for fast spool up. A larger turbo, especially if it is a standard impeller, will cause turbo lag. Chrysler tried to eliminate it back in their turbo days with a variable nozzle and did a pretty good job. But, keep in mind, bigger means lag. Non twin-scroll means lag. Add the two together and you get bigger lag.

The ideal set up for go fast:
- Larger turbo (doesn't matter which kind as will be reasoned in a minute)
- Larger turbo pipes
- Larger injectors
- Booster fuel pump
- Larger intercooler
- Higher boost pressures
- Automatic trans

Why the auto? You can hold your foot to the floor so there will be no lag between shifts!

I wish there was a DCT for the car...best of both worlds!

Hope this helps with some more tech dialog....

 

[LStillman]

I haven't seen anyone mention the reverse rotation of the stock turbo. This is going to make it more difficult for a stock replacement turbo because OTS compressor wheels aren't going to work. Meaning custom wheels will need to be developed granted they can just change their orientation but this isn't exactly an easy thing to do in a 3d software.

There are additional R&D costs going to be associated with stock replacement turbos. It would be nice to see how manufactures will address these concerns and control costs.

 

[STREETMASTERS]

Going to be a while before we see some super impressive results. Just have to enjoy sub 400hp for a while and let the experts do what they do. It will come around...way too much money to be made with this and future 2.3 EB vehicles...

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

* Sigh...

An attempt to discuss technical items here...

Hope this helps with some more tech dialog....

*Sigh

Thanks for trying to educate all of us simpletons, but I would highly recommend studying direct injected gas turbo engines some more. Fuel delivery specifically, as well as turbine compressors, as these seem to be the areas you need a bit better understanding of...

 

[smdandb2]

*Sigh

Thanks for trying to educate all of us simpletons, but I would highly recommend studying direct injected gas turbo engines some more. Fuel delivery specifically, as well as turbine compressors, as these seem to be the areas you need a bit better understanding of...

I normally don't chime into these kinds of conversations, but I agree with you.

18psi is not the same.

18psi on our GT22s (or whatever they are) would be VERY different from 18psi on a 35R or anything else. For a better understanding you need to look at compressor maps and understand what they are showing.

Or to get simpler... think of it this way...

18psi of water spraying from a garden hose versus 18psi coming from a fire hose; what one is putting more water on the ground?

 

[Billy1]

+1

 

[David@FFtec]

I normally don't chime into these kinds of conversations, but I agree with you.

18psi is not the same.

18psi on our GT22s (or whatever they are) would be VERY different from 18psi on a 35R or anything else. For a better understanding you need to look at compressor maps and understand what they are showing.

Or to get simpler... think of it this way...

18psi of water spraying from a garden hose versus 18psi coming from a fire hose; what one is putting more water on the ground?

I agree. The stock turbo looses efficiency above ~20psi. It will still make more power up to 24psi, but that's well into the realm of diminishing returns.

IIRC the most we made on the stock turbo was 330hp at 24psi. Some of you may remember back in December we began testing a twin scroll T4 EFR 7163. The latest test made just over 400 HP at 24psi.
Thread: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17631&highlight=fftec

An extra 70HP at the same boost level is nice!

 

[Sup3rPat]

I agree. The stock turbo looses efficiency above ~20psi. It will still make more power up to 24psi, but that's well into the realm of diminishing returns.

IIRC the most we made on the stock turbo was 330hp at 24psi. Some of you may remember back in December we began testing a twin scroll T4 EFR 7163. The latest test made just over 400 HP at 24psi.
Thread: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17631&highlight=fftec

An extra 70HP at the same boost level is nice!

ETA on FFTEC turbo kit?

 

[David@FFtec]

ETA on FFTEC turbo kit?

Not yet. Durability testing has been progressing nicely. There's still a little more to do before we're 100% confident in all aspects of performance.

 

[FreddyG]

Shots fired! Everybody get down! opcorn:



EDIT*

Just wanted to add...I think you two should each build a stock block 2.3l and see who's is fastest.

Same suspension, same weight, same tires, and even....a tamed racing driver...

Unless you race on the same track on the same day, there will be more variables involved.

Things such as elevation, DA (air density), track prep, etc.

Trap speeds will indicate power to a point, but I can't see it doing a bunch of good unless they are actually racing each other on the same track, on the same day.

Just my thoughts..................Oh and everyone knows that a Mustang dyno is the best (Just playing )!

I didn't tune it myself. And, yes, it ran out of fuel. You cannot run that much boost with the stock turbo and be supported by the fuel system, and especially in the cold.

Can you put some meth injection on it?

I agree. I've seen them for BMW's but I wouldn't trust anything driven in that manner unless perhaps it was by a chain.

Chains can break or stretch for that matter too. They'd probably use a Gilmer driven type belt (like on a Roots/GMC type blower that has teeth) that won't slip. They use them on 4000+ hp Top Fuel motors without issue, so I'd think that a 400 rwhp 4 cylinder wouldn't bother them too much.

Granted they're changed often on a Top Fueler, but you see my point. :cheers:

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