Catless vs Full Headers

[Sales@BBR]

How much have you seen by removing only the converters?

Removing cats by itself will free up a good 10+hp esp in the mid to upper range. This has been seen since Foxbody days if not older. The tuning side of is what will make the change that you can feel.

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[JolleyRoger]

How about torque?

Considering the relationship between HP and torque it will be relative.


Here is one example.

Earls East Coast Speed
Kenne Bell Supercharged ‘07 Shelby
STOCK MANIFOLDS, STOCK CATS, STOCK X PIPE, CAT BACK
762RWHP/ 677 RWTQ - 19.25 psi boost
ADD 1-3/4” HEADERS, 3” X PIPE, REMOVE CATS
764RWHP/ 683 RWTQ - 18.75 psi boost


To me the gain is no reason to remove the converters.

Obviously if you have a track situation you would remove them, if not for the few HP at least for the weight.:clap2:

 

[Mikes5.0]

I ran a lethal off road h pipe on my 2011 then changed to full long tube headers and had noticable gains in both tq and hp. Ill see If I can dig up the dyno's, I think most of the gains were up top but the coyote is a peaky engine.

 

[JolleyRoger]

Removing cats by itself will free up a good 10+hp esp in the mid to upper range. This has been seen since Foxbody days if not older. The tuning side of is what will make the change that you can feel.

I am not arguing the tune. You can't remove the converters and tune and then say removing the converters gave it 10 HP. What would the tune be with the converters, +2...+5 ...I don't know.

I am assuming also this guy is talking about a daily driver and not just a track car.

 

[JolleyRoger]

I know it seems i am being an ass here, but adding back a little social responsibility is not a bad thing. Anyone can do what they want, but to me the benefits to removing the converters is not worth the miniscule gains one might see. ;);)

 

[Sales@BBR]

But you are. Like I said before, since the early pushrod days, removing the cats will net you horsepower in different ranges. Mostly top end.

With a tune, its a good 15+ hp with a ORX or H. Cat delete pipes on the 11-14s were seeing about the same as actual off road pipes.

Tuning with cats, it helps but not as good as deleting them. We are making 400rwhp with these cars stock, 420 with a CAI, and 440 with longtubes and ORX.

And this is ALL street cars.

 

[JolleyRoger]

But you are. Like I said before, since the early pushrod days, removing the cats will net you horsepower in different ranges. Mostly top end.

With a tune, its a good 15+ hp with a ORX or H. Cat delete pipes on the 11-14s were seeing about the same as actual off road pipes.

Tuning with cats, it helps but not as good as deleting them. We are making 400rwhp with these cars stock, 420 with a CAI, and 440 with longtubes and ORX.

And this is ALL street cars.

Ok, well good luck to you and your customers then.;)

 

[stoli]

But you are. Like I said before, since the early pushrod days, removing the cats will net you horsepower in different ranges. Mostly top end.

With a tune, its a good 15+ hp with a ORX or H. Cat delete pipes on the 11-14s were seeing about the same as actual off road pipes.

Tuning with cats, it helps but not as good as deleting them. We are making 400rwhp with these cars stock, 420 with a CAI, and 440 with longtubes and ORX.

And this is ALL street cars.

Thanks for the info Steve. Would if be fair to say the difference between just a cat delete full headers would be in the 10hp range?

Maybe the better question is if full headers are out of the immediate budget, would it be worthwhile to go ahead with a cat delete+CAI+custom tune or just the CAI+custom tune and wait 6-12 months for catless long tubes and tune again?

 

[Sales@BBR]

Thanks for the info Steve. Would if be fair to say the difference between just a cat delete full headers would be in the 10hp range?

Maybe the better question is if full headers are out of the immediate budget, would it be worthwhile to go ahead with a cat delete+CAI+custom tune or just the CAI+custom tune and wait 6-12 months for catless long tubes and tune again?

The problem with these is 1 side cat is built into the exhaust manifold so cat deletes are out of the question. MAK makes a pipe but cutting and welding may be required.

If it was me, I would save up and do it all. It's a good 20-30hp increase and worth it when the time is right bud.

 

[stoli]

Thanks - I knew cutting and welding would be in order but I guess I'll hold off for now.

 

[2yankeesoldiers]

Power is in the collector along with the piping size. The factory 2 1/4" exhaust is already a flaw in the system.

Do it right and gain the power!!

THIS!

 

[BlackWidow]

I'm all for more power but how do those of you planning to go the full headers/catless route plan on passing emissions? Swapping the headers is not exactly a 15 minute process.

I have always run high flow cats on my previous cars (not sure if that is an option yet for the S550) to give me a good compromise of performance while still being able to pass emissions.

 

[stoli]

A lot of states, Florida included, don't require emissions testing.


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[Tommy V]

After installing the new headers u dont have to take them off again to go through emissions, the cat unbolts from the header on both sides with the new headers.So u just have to put the cats back on.

 

[Anthony]

Here is one example of a test. It is from Kenne Bell;they tested one mod at a time to see the difference.

RWHP TEST
279 - Stock baseline
750 - MAMMOTH™ 2.9H Kit
775 - Bassani cat back
775 - Remove exhaust
775 - Custom x pipe
775 - Remove x pipe
775 - Remove cats
775 - Install 1-3/4” headers
775 - Install cats
775 - Install gutted cat pipes w/headers
775 - Install stock x pipe
775 - Install custom x pipe
750 - Reinstall stock exhaust

You are correct though, I have seen test that show 2- 5 HP and my guess is the CAT was getting old or a bad manufacturing process.

That's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen.

Tells me kenne bell can't tune for shit!

No exhaust and no hp increase ? A hahahaha

No hp from headers? Bullshit!

1 3/4 primaries with a 2.9 blower!? What dumbass went with those after a blower install? 1 7/8 should have been installed.

So all I read in your post is BS

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